Are Mario Games Starting to Decline?

[Saint Nathan]

I actually think Galaxy is better than most of (if not all of) Mario's other games. I prefer it to SMB, Lost levels, 2, 3, World, 64, Sunshine, NSMB DS/Wii, though I do go back and forth on liking Galaxy 1 or 2 more. Oh well, shall we take this outside then?

As long as you don't think Sunshine is the worst I think we'll be okay.

however one little mention of it being anything but awesome and you will be missing your eye because i punched it out of the socket and into your sinuses.

[Agent York]

The US version of Mario 2 dosen't count because that's not even a Mario game.

I am very strict on that point. Other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you mean Sunshine. Then I need to fight you.

I'm going to push your buttons a bit and state it is a Mario game, even if it originally wasn't one, it ultimately was released as an official Mario game, it's characters and some attributes from the game became Mario characters like Birdo, and it's on Mario's 25th Anniversary Collection and was known in Japan as Super Mario USA. ;D (stirring up shit)

And I heart Sunshine very much.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Dusk the Horror Keeper

[speedfreak]

Sunshine was great and out of the main Mario games (SMB-SMG2) I'd say Lost Levels was the worst. The original gets points for being a pioneer, but IMHO it was completely dwarfed by every sequel with the exception of Lost Levels. Also I'm going to have to agree with Dusk about SMB2/SMUSA being a true Mario game. There has been far to much derived from that game in the Mario-verse to simply ignore it. Birdo, Peach's Smash bros moves, Bob-ombs, Shy Guys, etc.

[Saint Nathan]

I'm going to push your buttons a bit and state it is a Mario game, even if it originally wasn't one, it ultimately was released as an official Mario game, it's characters and some attributes from the game became Mario characters like Birdo, and it's on Mario's 25th Anniversary Collection and was known in Japan as Super Mario USA. ;D (stirring up shit)

And I heart Sunshine very much.

That dosen't make it a Mario game. It's Doki Doki Panic, but the USA version has Mario for extra bux. I'm not ignoring it and everything that came from it, but I can't consider it a Mario game, just a game with Mario.

And hell, Mario is the worst character to boot. Luigi and Toad just kick ass.

also yay sunshine. Seriously oh my god when can we get Fludd back Nintendo. Please? Like a Wiiware game or something but that was awesome.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Santa Man

[Dr. Mechano]

Mario games do not all have the "same story." They often share similar story elements, but that's not the same as the entire plot being the same. I don't even have to mention that the RPGs have fantastic and complex storylines that often completely sidestep (or at least subvert) the standard "Bowser kidnaps Peach" scenario, but even in the platformers, there's tons of variation in overall plot which I'll elaborate on now:

Super Mario Bros. - Bowser kidnaps Peach and her seven retainers while using his evil magic to transform the Mushroom Kingdom's citizens and conquer the land.

Super Mario Bros. 2 - Wart and his cronies have taken over Subcon, the land of dreams. (Or in the Japanese Mario 2, Bowser simply repeats his plan from SMB1)

Super Mario Bros. 3 - Bowser and his Koopalings aim not just for the Mushroom Kingdom, but the entire world, transforming kings of other kingdoms throughout the Mushroom World. Peach actually isn't even kidnapped until the very final stretch of the game (Which is why she can freely send you items throughout the game), and as Bowser says, he "kidnapped the Princess while you were running around."

Super Mario World - While the heroes are on vacation to Dinosaur Land, Bowser resurfaces to take over the land in his own kingdom conquest, capturing baby Yoshies and Peach in so doing.

Super Mario Land - Evil alien Tatanga kidnaps Princess Daisy of Sarasaland in an attempt to take over the kingdom.

Super Mario Land 2 - ...or so we thought. It appears he was working for Wario, who used Mario's preoccupation with Sarasaland to take over Mario's personal island and turn it into his own evil base of operations.

Yoshi's Island - An origin story for the Mario Bros. Kamek, Baby Bowser's guardian, kidnaps Baby Luigi and attempts to kidnap Baby Mario to prevent them from growing up and stopping Bowser.

Super Mario 64 - Bowser doesn't kidnap Peach at all. He simply takes over her castle and traps her and the Toads inside.

Super Mario Sunshine - Bowser and Bowser Jr. frame Mario for a series of crimes, and Bowser tricks his son into believing Peach is his mother in another attempt to steal the princess for himself.

New Super Mario Bros. - Admittedly, this one is basically a bare-bones "Save the princess" plot. Bowser kidnaps Peach, presumably to conquer the Mushroom Kingdom, and Mario must save her. Had the bizarre subplot of Bowser's death, transformation into a Dry Bones-esque creature, and revival by Junior.

Super Mario Galaxy - Bowser attempts to conquer the entire universe. Also backstory elements with Rosalina, and subplots involving Luigi and the Toad Brigade flesh out the story a bit.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii - As bare-bones as its predecessor, Peach is kidnapped by Bowser and his children, and Mario must rescue her.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 - A very similar story approach to the first Galaxy, really, with some changes and developments.

Hardly the "same story every time" some claim it is. The RPGs and a few other storyline games are also worth looking into, as they're quite fun and interesting looks at the Mario universe and its diverse cast. In this series, the characters are everything, and the characters shine through as endearing and memorable in nearly every appearance.

[Remy]

Hardly the "same story every time" some claim it is. The RPGs and a few other storyline games are also worth looking into, as they're quite fun and interesting looks at the Mario universe and its diverse cast. In this series, the characters are everything, and the characters shine through as endearing and memorable in nearly every appearance.

but you have to admit, the conquer/kidnap plot device is ultimately the base for all the stories.

A lot of people seem to think a basic plot is a bad plot, but I'd rather take the basic plot, well written, of Galaxy or SM64 over the melodramatic crap of Sonic 06, or Shadow The Hedgehog. Mario is aware that it is a game about silly little cartoon characters and behaves as such, no needless complication, just easy to understand, humorous, and justification for the set up.

I also for the record, don't find the games stale at all. Galaxy 1 & 2 are brilliant. NSMB less so, but it's still not awful by any stretch.

[JezMM]

As long as you don't think Sunshine is the worst I think we'll be okay.

however one little mention of it being anything but awesome and you will be missing your eye because i punched it out of the socket and into your sinuses.

Are we allowed to think Mario 3 is the worst? 8D

Honestly whoever designed what can only be described as the closest Mario has ever come to a bullet hell shooter in the army fleet stages of World 8 just ruined that game for me. I have to P-Wing/Cloud skip them every time.

[Saint Nathan]

Are we allowed to think Mario 3 is the worst? 8D

NO.

Mario 3 is awesome. The airship/tank stages are the best in the game BECAUSE they are so hard.

What, do you think Bowser is going to let you just waltz up to his castle?

[Remy]

mario 3 has the giant world right? can't be the worst.

[Saint Nathan]

mario 3 has the giant world right? can't be the worst.

Yes. Yes it does.

Actually every single good thing about modern Mario games can be traced back to either SMB or SMB3.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Santa Man

[SuperStingray]

As long as you don't think Sunshine is the worst I think we'll be okay.

however one little mention of it being anything but awesome and you will be missing your eye because i punched it out of the socket and into your sinuses.

Edited December 26, 2010 by SuperStingray

[Remy]

I think sunshine is (mostly) boring too. too much filler.

I also agree with Stingray's assessment of Mario 64- Without it, we wouldn't have the modern platformer. Fo reals, bro.

[Marcello]

I don't really like Mario 3. It has a weird saving system and I suck at it... I love SMW, though. And Yoshi's Island.

[Remy]

Mario 3 sticks out I think, in that the game is actually challenging.

Couldn't handle it as a kid and I hated it but nowadays going back to the game I enjoy it a lot more.

[Scar]

NO.

Mario 3 is awesome. The airship/tank stages are the best in the game BECAUSE they are so hard.

What, do you think Bowser is going to let you just waltz up to his castle?

[blackherox]

Mario is on an incline, especially now. Super Mario Galaxy 2 was the best, and I do mean the best, platformer ever. Ever. I will physically fight anyone who disagrees. The worst Mario game is fucking Galaxy 1, and it's still mind-blowingly good.

I wouldn't call it the best platformer ever. Good game sure, thats it really.

[Saint Nathan]

So having everything on-screen trying to kill you with Bullet Bills, Hammers and other projectiles coming at you from off-screen is challenge?

Yet a couple slicers throwing their arms at you in Metropolis Zone is Cheap? But surely Eggman wouldn't just let you waltz up to his base, would he?

Actually yes.

I applaud you for trying to throw that back in my face but it dosen't work.

See, in the Airship/Tanks in Mario 3, everything moves slowly. Everything. Bullet Bills, cannonballs, EVERYTHING. Mario games ALSO always have a path through, even when it looks stupidly difficult, simply walking forward at the right moment can get you through a lot of 'challenging' parts. These parts are challenging and not cheap because the right way through is usually horribly obvious, it just takes skill to get through. This skill is USUALLY what you've already got due to running through X worlds by now, so the airships aren't that challenging. Mario also has invincible feet, so simply standing on a cannon prevents it from firing.

Compare to the Slicers in Metropolis, who are the most difficult things in the entire game in one enemy, their arms move fast, and they are literally positioned so you have no chance to dodge them when they throw unless you took another route. That's cheap.

Difficulty is not cheap. Having something you can almost literally not dodge and is way more difficult than the level itself is cheap.

And don't say "it's almost literally impossible to dodge the bullets in the airships" because that is just a giant lie.

[Gatestormer]

Compare to the Slicers in Metropolis, who are the most difficult things in the entire game in one enemy, their arms move fast, and they are literally positioned so you have no chance to dodge them when they throw unless you took another route. That's cheap.

[Solid SOAP]

I'm suprised people aren't pointing fingers towards SMB1 and the Lost Levels for retardly cheap difficulty. I swear, the fucking Hammer Bros. in both games are the biggest pains in the ass ever. Also, world 8-4 in Lost Levels is just stupid, I'm on it right now and there are just some stupid jumps you have to make, starting at the very beginning of the level! You have to jump a little bit in front of the platform you're on, then immediately pull back and land on the platform directly below you. Ridiculous. Also you get no mushrooms in this level, so one hit anywhere sends you right back to the start of the level.

[Remy]

Well, lost levels isn't exactly known for being fair.

I dunno, I don't really see it as a mainline ame so I never talk about it, it's more like a fruity official rom hack.

[Saint Nathan]

Jump.

You know those wall springs in Metropolis? The ones that bounce you around and almost always have a slicer at the top?

And you can't jump off of them.

Or the corkscrews, with the slicers near the top?

Or just about anywhere a Slicer is placed that isn't flat ground near nothing at all?

Makes it hard to jump. And by hard I mean no, you're not going to be able to jump out of the way in time don't try.

[speedfreak]

I'm suprised people aren't pointing fingers towards SMB1 and the Lost Levels for retardly cheap difficulty. I swear, the fucking Hammer Bros. in both games are the biggest pains in the ass ever. Also, world 8-4 in Lost Levels is just stupid, I'm on it right now and there are just some stupid jumps you have to make, starting at the very beginning of the level! You have to jump a little bit in front of the platform you're on, then immediately pull back and land on the platform directly below you. Ridiculous. Also you get no mushrooms in this level, so one hit anywhere sends you right back to the start of the level.

Yeah, it's been years since I've played those two and honestly I'm having way more fun with SMB2/USA and SBM3. Plus I hate how you go all the way back to regular Mario from one hit even if you're Fire Mario. I think every other main Mario game towers over those two in nearly every way.

[Sean]

Since when was Mario 3 ever considered unfairly hard? I can beat world 8 in my goddamned sleep.

[Ekaje]

Mario 3 isn't that hard, I can beat it, after all.

It's probably a bad thing that I use myself being able to play it well as a benchmark for something being easy...

[Remy]

Since when was Mario 3 ever considered unfairly hard? I can beat world 8 in my goddamned sleep.

Since everyone alive playing videogames became babies