IDW Sonic Comics are confirmed canon

[SonicLegends]

The lore manager for the Sonic series name-dropped it.

Personally, I thought this was already confirmed, but good to hear it this time from word of mouth.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Eh, it's as canon as it was week ago.

Until we physically see IDW character/concept in game with a story, it's still semi-canon to me.

[SonicLegends]

36 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Eh, it's as canon as it was week ago.

Until we physically see IDW character/concept in game with a story, it's still semi-canon to me.

I understand where you're coming from, however the fact that this is coming from the guy that Sega/Sonic Team wanted to hire for the position of getting together their lore with how much of a convoluted mess it has been in not keeping a good record on hand kinda does say otherwise. If it had been anyone else aside from him (plus obviously Iizuka), I would be inclined to agree with you then.

[MetalSkulkBane]

2 words: Two Worlds

That was also SAID to be canon. Not sure who said it, but it was an official statement. And it was as pointless as this one is.

For all that matters, someone could tell that Zelda takes place in the same universe as Star Wars, just many galaxies apart. Can you disprove it? Not really. Nintendo and Disney could declare that for giggles. But until Link shakes hands with Luke or Ganondofr becomes Sith Lord, those are just words.

[Red Hot Jack]

The comics are canon but I always want to specify this doesn't make them required to read in order to understand the story in the games. In fact most Sonic stories don't even need previous games aside from Frontiers where every game kinda got references, outside of callbacks I don't think anything is necessary, if you buy a game you don't need all the previous stuff to understand it. Simple.

That said the characters from IDW may appear sometime in a game, but I assume they will be in a minor role, in the way that we won't see Tangle as playable over Amy for example.

Besides, even if they were in a story of a game, the IDW cast is quite simple, there is no 100 chapters of backstory either.

21 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

2 words: Two Worlds

That was also SAID to be canon. Not sure who said it, but it was an official statement. And it was as pointless as this one is.

For all that matters, someone could tell that Zelda takes place in the same universe as Star Wars, just many galaxies apart. Can you disprove it? Not really. Nintendo and Disney could declare that for giggles. But until Link shakes hands with Luke or Ganondofr becomes Sith Lord, those are just words.

To be fair they are caring a lot more for Sonic lore right now than in the past, trying to make it consistent too maybe, but yeah it wouldn't be the first time they retconned something, it can always happen. But still, IDW is canon I think because it was always very much tied to the world of Modern Sonic, and also very popular stories among fans.

[SonicLegends]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

2 words: Two Worlds

That was also SAID to be canon. Not sure who said it, but it was an official statement. And it was as pointless as this one is.

For all that matters, someone could tell that Zelda takes place in the same universe as Star Wars, just many galaxies apart. Can you disprove it? Not really. Nintendo and Disney could declare that for giggles. But until Link shakes hands with Luke or Ganondofr becomes Sith Lord, those are just words.

As mentioned by Red Hot Jack regarding it also Tailstube debunked Two Worlds with the whole those like Sonic and co are on the smaller islands (so Heroes levels and such) and then humans on larger continents (so Unleashed levels and such).

[DaBigJ]

If you're denying that IDW is canon until characters concepts are in a game while ignoring the fact that Tangle was literally mentioned in Sonic Frontiers then I'm sorry nut that's just really lame

[LegoFedora]

It'd be nice to have them as canon (though, haven't we known that from the start? Wasn't the entire point of the first arc as taking place after the events of forces), though I'm with Metal on this. Until we actually see them show that they're canon, they're forever semi-canon. Put their money where their mouth is, basically.

And no, I don't consider shoving IDW characters into a mobile spinoff game as being in a mainline game.

33 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

If you're denying that IDW is canon until characters concepts are in a game while ignoring the fact that Tangle was literally mentioned in Sonic Frontiers then I'm sorry nut that's just really lame

Thing is, we don't even know how canon that mention is. That line (and afaik, the line mentioning Sticks as well) are completely absent in the japanese script of the game. Sega of America may consider IDW canon and allow the line, but SoJ may not. So now we have the debacle of which script is actually the canon script, since they both either confirm/ignore a big sub-series being canon or not.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

29 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

If you're denying that IDW is canon until characters concepts are in a game while ignoring the fact that Tangle was literally mentioned in Sonic Frontiers then I'm sorry nut that's just really lame

For once, I have to agree. Besides, pretty sure we already knew about IDW being canon for a while. 

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

2 words: Two Worlds

That was debunked ages ago on a Tailstube video.

It's been dead, just like the 2 Dimensions stuff.

2 minutes ago, LegoFedora said:

Until we actually see them show that they're canon, they're forever semi-canon. 

That is not how it works. Now if you personally view it that way, then fine, but that sort of viewpoint doesn't affect actual canon status.

[Danj86]

22 minutes ago, DaBigJ said:

If you're denying that IDW is canon until characters concepts are in a game while ignoring the fact that Tangle was literally mentioned in Sonic Frontiers then I'm sorry nut that's just really lame

That is just a reference. Mere fan service. Sticks got mentioned too, but I'm more interested in how she works in the game canon.

You can be excited for this, sure. But calling anyone that doesn't care lame, is rather rude.

Tangle is the only character with the possibility of an interesting move set in my opinion. I don't want to use Wispons again. Surge and Kitsunami would be easily obvious too.

People like to pretend that the western comic industry is fine, even when evidence and multiple accounts strongly suggest it's in a very bad financial situation.

I'm sorry for being cautious but I just feel this decision is unwise.

Also...why haven't we seen any sign of G.U.N in IDW yet? You'd think they'd have had something to say about all the events that had already taken place in the comics.

13 minutes ago, LegoFedora said:

Thing is, we don't even know how canon that mention is. That line (and afaik, the line mentioning Sticks as well) are completely absent in the japanese script of the game. Sega of America may consider IDW canon and allow the line, but SoJ may not. So now we have the debacle of which script is actually the canon script, since they both either confirm/ignore a big sub-series being canon or not.

Historically, Sega of America and Sega of Japan have been at odds. This had played a part in their console failures, if what I learned is correct.

There's evidence to suggest they'd learn something and are out to improve, but than stuff like Sonic Origins and Plus happens and I think they are still as daft as ever.

[LegoFedora]

16 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

That is not how it works. Now if you personally view it that way, then fine, but that sort of viewpoint doesn't affect actual canon status.

Probably should've worded it better, but yeah that's just how I view it. I'm not a massive fan of series/creators just telling us how/what something happened, and would prefer it actually shown at some point. Even if it's through a simple flashback, it's still better than just telling us which is just as useful as not mentioning it at all. Show don't tell, I guess.

[sonicclaasic]

4 hours ago, SonicLegends said:

The lore manager for the Sonic series name-dropped it.

Personally, I thought this was already confirmed, but good to hear it this time from word of mouth.

When the IDW Sonic comics series first started I thought to myself It must be canon somewhere along the lines. Thanks for posting this for the confirmation this Is news to me.

[MetalSkulkBane]

32 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

That was debunked ages ago on a Tailstube video.

It's been dead, just like the 2 Dimensions stuff.

And that's EXACTLY my point.

2 Words was canon. But then they said, "Eeh, never mind. Not canon". And poof. Just like that. Words are cheap. Flimsy. Fleeting.

Does anyone remember that Big the Cat was announced to get retired? Well, that didn't stick.
Have you heard how Master Emerald was created by the gods to counter 7 Chaos Emeralds? No? Well, that was written in 90s Sonic manuals. Old, old, once probably meant to be canon, now completely ignored, manuals. 

Claims made by the author/owner/whoever about the canon that are not actually supported by the game kiiiiinda count, but can change at any moment.

As for Frontiers mentioning Tangle: this is only an Easter Egg. Flynn himself said he just put the line there, hoping it will get a pass. He has no plans, doesn't know what will come out of this, nothing. Sticks is mentioned as well, but none of you claim Boom is now canon, do you?

 

But let's say you disagree with me. Let's say I'm a dummy. Let's say 50 years will pass from today and none of IDW characters will show up in games, but Sega will keep insisting the two are connected. In that case... is that what you want? Is Tangle being in the games, except not physically, good enough to make you happy? In that case good for you, but wake me up when Lemur is actually playable (in not mobile-game).

[Danj86]

35 minutes ago, LegoFedora said:

Probably should've worded it better, but yeah that's just how I view it. I'm not a massive fan of series/creators just telling us how/what something happened, and would prefer it actually shown at some point. Even if it's through a simple flashback, it's still better than just telling us which is just as useful as not mentioning it at all. Show don't tell, I guess.

That's actually important writing advice. In far too many modern television shows and movies, it is often ignored.

But it's also why I haven't reacted to the Sticks or Tangle references. In this instance, I'd say it's more of an Easter Egg as stories that tend to tell but not show are usually badly written.

[Red Hot Jack]

SEGA retcons things all the time as we mentioned, 2 worlds, Classic Sonic from another dimension, Big retired, etc.

IDW is confirmed canon at the moment, but you never know if that changes.

I also don't buy the whole "Tangle was just a reference", as I said I really don't want them to make you forced to read 60 issues, the comics are canon and will get minor references, characters in cameo roles, it doesn't have to be too big of a deal to be canon.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

21 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

And that's EXACTLY my point.

2 Words was canon. But then they said, "Eeh, never mind. Not canon". And poof. Just like that. Words are cheap. Flimsy. Fleeting.

That honestly speaks more to how flimsy the idea of 2 worlds was.

No one really bought that stuff to begin with. Hence why people en masse are more in tune with the restoration of 2 Worlds being false.

22 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Sticks is mentioned as well, but none of you claim Boom is now canon, do you?

No, but Sticks is essentially now a canon foreigner in that case. Remember, most calls were for Sticks to be brought into the maintimeline. Ergo, another version of her. Which already had precedence from the Sega comic, and with her more or less geling into the main canon. 

 

24 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

But let's say you disagree with me. Let's say I'm a dummy. Let's say 50 years will pass from today and none of IDW characters will show up in games, but Sega will keep insisting the two are connected. In that case... is that what you want? Is Tangle being in the games, except not physically, good enough to make you happy? In that case good for you, but wake me up when Lemur is actually playable (in not mobile-game).

What this does is first, show that the door is more open than before for the characters. If say, stuff like this had Bern absolutely vetoed like Hyper Sonic has been confirmed to be from the story, then that would show far less willingness on the powers that be for them.

If you personally are stoked on it, that's fine, but that doesn’t change their canon status. Nor does it really beg one to rain on the parade of those excited or buzzing about it.

They're canon. Being officially regarded as canon isn't the be-all, end-all goal, but it's still a step in a far better direction. 

[Red Hot Jack]

Jet was also referenced in Frontiers although I've never seen him in a main title, I guess he's not canon...

Honestly, if mentioning Tangle is not enough, having Tangle and Whisper in the mobile games as playable is not enough, Ian Flynn confirming they are canon is not enough, lore master confirming comics are canon in the livestream is not enough... what would even make these comics "canon" to the games?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

9 minutes ago, Red Hot Jack said:

Jet was also referenced in Frontiers although I've never seen him in a main title, I guess he's not canon...

Jet has been regarded as canon. By that logic, no spin-off is canon

It doesn't make any sense where you're coming from on that end.

[Dr. Mechano]

1 hour ago, LegoFedora said:

Thing is, we don't even know how canon that mention is. That line (and afaik, the line mentioning Sticks as well) are completely absent in the japanese script of the game. Sega of America may consider IDW canon and allow the line, but SoJ may not. So now we have the debacle of which script is actually the canon script, since they both either confirm/ignore a big sub-series being canon or not.

The Sticks namedrop was absent in the Japanese version.

The Tangle namedrop was still included in the Japanese version.

The IDW Sonic comics have an official Japanese localization as well, so it's not surprising they attempted to canonize her in both versions.

[Danj86]

Yeah, I'm sencing some animosity in this thread and I'm not sure why.

Some of us need more than a throw away line and a handful of characters in a mobile game to care more about this. Sega have proven to be fickle so it makes sense to be cautious.

If Tangle was playable in Frontiers 2, that would be substantial. That's what some of us are saying.

It's not something worth getting heated over. (Though I could be misreading the situation.)

[Red Hot Jack]

39 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Jet has been regarded as canon. By that logic, no spin-off is canon

It doesn't make any sense where you're coming from on that end.

I was being sarcastic, because Jet is a spinoff character in the same way Tangle and Whisper are from a different medium than the games.

Also, I don't really like the idea that for IDW to be canon to the games, Tangle needs to be playable or be a major character or connect to the IDW plots... that would in fact force everyone to read the comics, which is what SEGA should NOT do for me.

In the games, the focus should be on Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, etc.

[Dr. Mechano]

IDW is canon, but not in a way that functionally matters to non-comic readers.

I feel like if they ever did bring in comic characters to the games, they'd do a quick recap and reintroduction of who that character is rather than just expecting players to be familiar with the comics.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

51 minutes ago, Red Hot Jack said:

I was being sarcastic, because Jet is a spinoff character in the same way Tangle and Whisper are from a different medium than the games.

Also, I don't really like the idea that for IDW to be canon to the games, Tangle needs to be playable or be a major character or connect to the IDW plots... that would in fact force everyone to read the comics, which is what SEGA should NOT do for me.

In the games, the focus should be on Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, etc.

Ah, I see. You were against the gatekeeping idea. My apologies for misunderstanding. 

16 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

IDW is canon, but not in a way that functionally matters to non-comic readers.

I feel like if they ever did bring in comic characters to the games, they'd do a quick recap and reintroduction of who that character is rather than just expecting players to be familiar with the comics.

Tangle and Sticks are relatively easy to fit into the main timeline. Be it as introductory or having been there before.

[Dr. Mechano]

9 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Ah, I see. You were against the gatekeeping idea. My apologies for misunderstanding. 

Tangle and Sticks are relatively easy to fit into the main timeline. Be it as introductory or having been there before.

Sticks is a bit of a weird case, since she doesn't originate from a game-canon source.

Would be absolutely wild if the first appearance of "Sega Sticks" was in Mario and Sonic at the Rio Olympic Games 2016. They couldn't mention it by name, but she could totally be like, "Yeah! I competed with you guys in the big sports games that one time!"

[Indigo Rush]

I'm all for the consistency, but making the comics "canon" is kind of a risky move. It's not like it isn't doable, but it'll take a large amount of oversight to make sure everything is consistent. Adding to that, what happens when the comics are inevitably cancelled? Not saying that's happening anytime soon, and retcons are always a thing, but that's a very real thing that will happen. And what happens when there's a lore oopsie and the comics contradict something? 

Just stuff to think about.