Should Future Sonic Games Get Rid Of Lives?

[CleverSonicUsername]

Lives in part serve a positive reinforcement to the player. Getting them feels good, they remind you that you're doing well, and are a clear way to mark your skill as you progress through the game. Mario Odyssey's lack of a life counter is helped by the fact that coins now gain an additional utility in that they can be exchanged for items. There's still some metric by which you can gauge how well you're doing, and so picking them up continues to feel good. If you remove lives then I'd say give rings a similar perk and it'd be fine, otherwise getting that jingle and seeing the number go up every hundred rings or so many points is more about positive feedback than it is about actually having a consequence.

Basically I think they rarely serve their intended purpose as a safety net for failure and have become more about rewarding the player for taking a harder path, finding a secret area, or consistently doing well. And with that in mind, you could just as easily swap them out for something else that has more utility.

[SpongicX]

15 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Lives in part serve a positive reinforcement to the player. Getting them feels good, they remind you that you're doing well, and are a clear way to mark your skill as you progress through the game. Mario Odyssey's lack of a life counter is helped by the fact that coins now gain an additional utility in that they can be exchanged for items. There's still some metric by which you can gauge how well you're doing, and so picking them up continues to feel good. If you remove lives then I'd say give rings a similar perk and it'd be fine, otherwise getting that jingle and seeing the number go up every hundred rings or so many points is more about positive feedback than it is about actually having a consequence.

Basically I think they rarely serve their intended purpose as a safety net for failure and have become more about rewarding the player for taking a harder path, finding a secret area, or consistently doing well. And with that in mind, you could just as easily swap them out for something else that has more utility.

Strange, because my save files for Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 have max lives, yet it doesn’t feel rewarding to see 99 lives non stop, while getting nothing else from collecting more lives. All it does is remind me I’ve played these games too much, without dying. All it does is remind me of how useless lives are now in days. I hate it when games  don’t offer enough lives, yet hate it when lives are too easy to earn. Games with actual save data and level selects are better off without lives.

The real reward from these games was collecting all the emblems and getting A ranks in each level. Lives added nothing to the reward of unlocking Metal Sonic in SADX, or getting Green Hill Zone in SA2B.

Not everyone is great at old video games. Some of us like games that allow us to have fun on our own time, instead of expect us to beat it in one sitting.  Not everyone has the freedom or time to enjoy video games in large doses, due to jobs and other responsibilities. Forcing players to restart levels over, due to running out of lives is not always enjoyable for gamers with other responsibilities to worry about. There are many games from the past I was incapable of beating, to the point where I lost interest. However, that doesn't mean I couldn't handle challenging games.  there are still many challenging games I’ve beaten that others I know claim they couldn’t beat. I’ve beaten DK64 and Banjo-Tooie, which were games that had no lives, yet no one I personally know was able to make it to the final boss and beat them like I did, while also finding all the golden bananas/jiggies in those games. (Then again, DK64 did require beating the original DK Arcade Game with 0 extra chances, and beat it a second time with a harder difficulty plus 3 lives, along with getting a highscore in Jetpack...) 

The point is, games without lives can still be challenging, yet fun and rewarding as well. I like rewards in games being actual unlockables, not a still image saying “CONGRATULATIONS , THE END!” That is the most underwhelming way to reward players for completing games.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Another big reason to get rid of them is to satiate critics who simply suck at running fast in video games, period. 

[CleverSonicUsername]

2 hours ago, SpongicX said:

Strange, because my save files for Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 have max lives, yet it doesn’t feel rewarding to see 99 lives non stop, while getting nothing else from collecting more lives. All it does is remind me I’ve played these games too much, without dying. All it does is remind me of how useless lives are now in days. I hate it when games  don’t offer enough lives, yet hate it when lives are too easy to earn. Games with actual save data and level selects are better off without lives.

The real reward from these games was collecting all the emblems and getting A ranks in each level. Lives added nothing to the reward of unlocking Metal Sonic in SADX, or getting Green Hill Zone in SA2B.

 

Lives as positive reinforcement are more a pat on the back for taking a riskier route, or to indicate that you've done well to continue holding onto your rings, etc, that's why you get multiples of them versus the A rank system, which is more cumulative of your skill in the level. Obviously one is going to on average have more of an impact, especially when, as in SA2's case, an additional level or other bonuses are locked behind it. An alternative to extra lives down difficult paths would be red rings, or other collectables that are redeemable for rewards metered out over time, or a single major reward upon max completion.

It boils down to ~game feel~ in that smaller more frequent bonuses as positive reinforcement can contribute to a continued feeling of reward, or as an indication to the player over time that they're doing well. However, their purpose as a safety net for failure is pretty much obsolete and has been since the advent of game saves.

Again, my argument here isn't to preserve lives, it's to state that there's more to them than a simple failsafe, and you can substitute the positive feedback they give with more substantial rewards or collectables. Hell, you probably should. Using Mario Odyssey as an example again, they removed gaining a life per 100 coins by giving coins a different value, now you can use them to purchase cosmetics, moons, or other bonuses. That helps preserve the value of coins, contributes to that frequent low-level sense of accomplishment that I'm talking about, and does away with the arbitrary lives system.

[Potada]

Tbh, I have actually been thinking about the whole lives thing lately and how they affect Sonic games. Since they seem arbitrary in their current state, it makes one wonder how they'd affect the "Rings for health" system, as well. Mainly, though, my problem is figuring out what to do with all the decapitated Sonic heads if they have no more use. [emoji14]

[SpongicX]

2 hours ago, Potada said:

Tbh, I have actually been thinking about the whole lives thing lately and how they affect Sonic games. Since they seem arbitrary in their current state, it makes one wonder how they'd affect the "Rings for health" system, as well. Mainly, though, my problem is figuring out what to do with all the decapitated Sonic heads if they have no more use.

Either scrap them, replace them, or give them a new purpose.

Maybe lives can be replaced with a score bonus, or give you a random amount of rings, or random power up. Super Mario Odyssey got rid of the 1Up shrooms with no replacement, yet I don’t seem to see anyone missing them to the point of subtracting points off the game. (Heck, there’s no health mushrooms or power up mushrooms at all in this game, they were replaced with hearts and the capture ability, yet share similarities in purpose.