State of Emergency in Paris - 11/13/15 - Terrorist Attacks

[FantasticMrRobb]

I'd love to see a day where everybody is just nice to each other. Even for a day. Please?

Isn't that what World Peace Day is for? At least an attempt. :/

[Tornado]

However, 10 years ago, they were sending letters to Al-Qaeda in Iraq asking them to take it easy with the beheadings and other acts of violence, because a lot of these killed people for the sake of killing them. Al-Qaeda's violence, while it freely targets civilians, is primarily meant to extract political goals (in other words, they are true terrorists), as well as win the support of the masses. When they saw ISIS killing people left and right for no real objective, they felt this would alienate Muslims from the cause.

In short, it's a mixture of recognizing reality, plus a few fundamental differences in ideology. Al-Qaeda focuses on terrorist attacks and wants to awaken Muslims while ousting the West from Muslim lands. ISIS wants to build an actual state while also killing whoever it pleases.

To add on to this, the mass exodus of Muslims from the entire region out of fear for their lives was not something that happened under Al Qaeda, because, squabbles over religious sects notwithstanding, most of Al Qaeda's violence was directed outward. Huge lines of refugees flooding Western Europe and abandoning the Muslim world entirely is completely counterproductive to anything Al Qaeda wanted when they were trying to rally Muslims against Western interference.

 

[Jango]

I woke up this morning and the news were that the US shared intelligence with France. France then, sent jet fighters and dropped 20 bombs on Syria, more especificaly, training fields, headquarters, strongholds and even oil refineries of ISIS. All this at dawn. The ISIS leader declared war to non-islamic countries and anyone who attacks them, and a spokesman said that all sites were abandoned and there were no casualties of the attack...

Obama said the attacks will continue (americans are flying east to combat), called ISIS the "face of evil". The US, France and others European nations are joining forces to protect Iran and Syria on the ground (as well as scouting them out of the battlefield), while the troops will try to shrink the ISIS untill they are fully destroyed.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Jango

[Danj86]

On the France and US friendship note, did you also mention that one of America's most iconic monuments was a gift from France? The Statue of Liberty.

It does seem like these gun fanatical people who claim more guns would've prevented it, never seem to ask the important question of where did they get the guns in the first place? The new said they got them outside of France at a place were they're 'easier to get.' I forget which one it was though.

The news also spoke about why they did this. They talked about how they seem to be losing in Syria, they are being pushed back and cities are being reclaimed. Although they also showed footage of one place they reclaimed and there wasn't much left, it couldn't really be called a town or city anymore. ISIS destroyed everything...

So the news people reckoned they did this to try and get some footing back...

But surely ISIS knows that these actions won't stop the air strikes, I'm no tactician, but sending people to attack innocents miles away of the actual fighting is, makes no strategic sense. It means less people to defend there occupied base. Unless they recruit expendable people (which now that I think about it, is obviously what they did.) to do such acts. So the only reason I can think of, for why they would do this is, they know they are losing and are trying to bring down as many people with them as possible.

I don't know why I'm trying to understand things better...I guess the simple fact is, we may never understand and perhaps it's better that way. 

...Although my black nephew (I'm white) was attack by 5 balaclava wearing jackarses recently. He seems okay but acts such as this must provoke the youth of today into anger and seeking a place to belong. It's like a vicious cycle of hate.

[KHCast]

So Anonymus is apparently gonna try finding names of Isis members, and is calling them out saying they are better hackers. Honestly hope they actually pull up some names.

[Tornado]

It does seem like these gun fanatical people who claim more guns would've prevented it, never seem to ask the important question of where did they get the guns in the first place? The new said they got them outside of France at a place were they're 'easier to get.' I forget which one it was though.

The Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack earlier in the year (which is at least a context where you can kind of argue the point about an armed populace) made it clear that actual terrorist groups with the required connections have little problem accessing old Soviet machine guns and bombs and/or getting them into a country they are outlawed in. The ones used in that particular attack were purchased in Belgium, of all places.

[shdowhunt60]

 

The Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack earlier in the year (which is at least a context where you can kind of argue the point about an armed populace) made it clear that actual terrorist groups with the required connections have little problem accessing old Soviet machine guns and bombs and/or getting them into a country they are outlawed in. The ones used in that particular attack were purchased in Belgium, of all places.

Should we be discussing this in this thread?

Regardless, yes, I think the fact that handfuls of people having their way of the city and killing hundreds unchallenged is a pretty good argument that a police force equipped to deal with bums pissing in the streets is pretty ineffectual to counter with. That's why militias were a thing, to prevent bands of marauders from completely slaughtering and pillaging everything.

[Tornado]

Discussing what?

[shdowhunt60]

Discussing what?

It seems like we're going into discussion over gun control.

[Tornado]

Other than offhand comments that are being falsely attributed to a response to this attack, no one in this thread is directly commenting on gun control itself. Someone brought up difficulty of obtaining ex-military weapons in the country to do actions like this, under the idea that there was great difficulty in doing so. There was a fairly similar terrorist attack earlier in the year in that same country using the same sorts of weapons.

 

The investigation of that attack made it clear how easy it was to buy those weapons initially (an undercover journalist with nothing more than a driver's licence walked into a store in Slovakia and walked out with a deactivated AK47 for less money than a PS4), and how easy it was to change them back into an actual gun (an international arms dealer converted them back into fully functional form, and then they were purchased by the terrorists as fully functional firearms in Belgium) and then into France across the nearly fully open border that exists between all three EU countries; and pointing that out is perfectly related to this attack where similar weapons were obtained in what is very likely a similar way.

[Jango]

This just in: France is at war.

A new video from ISIS, this time threatening Washington, US.

ISIS: I swear to God, as we struck France in its stronghold Paris, we will strike America in its stronghold, Washington

This is just the beggining of the war. Stay safe America.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Oh yeah, you're going to risk traveling hundreds of miles over the Atlantic, in a country that has geared a lot of its intelligence work on groups like yours, along with people suspicious and distrustful of Muslims more than decade after 9/11 provoked them, combined with incredibly lax gun control policies due to our vague interpretation of our right to bear arms that make Europeans like France think we're stupid crazy as all hell, in order to commit a similar terrorist attack in the capital of a superpower while the entire world is on alert for such things.

Yeah, good luck. I'll be surprised if you actually pull it off.

[KHCast]

You know, I'd assume if they wanted to actually do this, and be successful, they wouldn't make known their plans to the people they are intending to do harm to. Especially if it is against a global power like America. But yeah, I'm finding this a empty threat just meant to cause fear. Isis are willing to waste resources in a attempt to attack the heart of a power country, basically initiating a war against the world they likely are not ready for? Yeah, finding it hard to believe.

[Tornado]

At this point all an attack against Washington DC would do is cause the United States to mobilize actual military power and mop up what France hadn't already blown up after they do so.

[Danj86]

Yeah, every action they take are the actions of cowards. They wouldn't have the balls to give anyone an advance notice. Especially a powerhouse such as America.

[ZDozer]

Man, seems like they're begging to get a hydrogen bomb into their asses.

[Tani Coyote]

But surely ISIS knows that these actions won't stop the air strikes, I'm no tactician, but sending people to attack innocents miles away of the actual fighting is, makes no strategic sense. It means less people to defend there occupied base. Unless they recruit expendable people (which now that I think about it, is obviously what they did.) to do such acts. So the only reason I can think of, for why they would do this is, they know they are losing and are trying to bring down as many people with them as possible.

I don't know why I'm trying to understand things better...I guess the simple fact is, we may never understand and perhaps it's better that way.

It's an intimidation tactic at the end of the day. Same thing with the mass beheadings they were doing back when they were still Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

So Anonymus is apparently gonna try finding names of Isis members, and is calling them out saying they are better hackers. Honestly hope they actually pull up some names.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

Given how fast Anonymous retreated when the Cartels were geared up to murder them, though, I don't know how far this will go.

On the flipside, Anonymous being what it is, it's very possible a lot of the people doing this may not be afraid of dying. Doubly so since while the Cartels largely limit their violence to south of the border, ISIS is a direct threat to Western communities.

Oh yeah, you're going to risk traveling hundreds of miles over the Atlantic, in a country that has geared a lot of its intelligence work on groups like yours, along with people suspicious and distrustful of Muslims more than decade after 9/11 provoked them, combined with incredibly lax gun control policies due to our vague interpretation of our right to bear arms that make Europeans like France think we're stupid crazy as all hell, in order to commit a similar terrorist attack in the capital of a superpower while the entire world is on alert for such things.

Yeah, good luck. I'll be surprised if you actually pull it off.

Actually very possible.

We might beef up security at stadiums, monuments, etc... but there are tons of places with zero security presence. We simply cannot protect everywhere.

I mean Hell, what's to stop them from just wandering into and bombing the foundation of a high rise apartment somewhere?

Our sole consolation is that as devastating as these attacks are, there are far, far more of us than of them. And most Muslims will happily come forward with any information if it reaches them.

Well, I hope so, anyway. There's a sizable chunk of Americans who are calling them all a fifth column waiting to happen.

I can only hope the Muslim sentiment is like African American sentiment in prior generations; even if wider society is a complete dick to you, you want to demonstrate that you are deserving of respect and citizenship.

At this point all an attack against Washington DC would do is cause the United States to mobilize actual military power and mop up what France hadn't already blown up after they do so.

Pretty much.

America lost its appetite for war after Iraq because it became apparent it wasn't really furthering our national security goals.

If ISIS gives us another 9/11, that hunger will reawaken. People will most likely sign up in droves to get a chance at being the one who topples the Caliphate. And hilariously, going back to Iraq will switch from being political suicide to being political survival.

[PSI Wind]

Sadly, I can bet that no one's gonna listen to any Muslims that have information. They'll probably think they're tricking them or something stupid. With how much fear these politicians have basically shown for ISIS, I'm honestly thinking that ISIS is actually winning. 

[DarkDefeater]

Islamic militants further attacks stopped

Suspects had planned further attacks. It's remarkable at times this level of fanaticism and lust for violence.

[Regen]

I really hope people don't support anonymous doesn't start trying to find ISIS members. That should be left to the professionals in secret services who actually know what they are doing, rather than bored fifteen year old kids on the internet, pulling up random people they think are suspicious.

It's street vigilante justice and it's BS.

[Tani Coyote]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/french-president-francois-hollande-welcomes-refugees-paris-attack/story?id=35274658

France will still be accepting 30,000 refugees amid the current climate of fear. 

It really speaks volumes about the American take on the issue. It's rather how most Americans hated the idea of a mosque near Ground Zero... except those who actually lived in Manhattan.

It really comes off as a paternalistic "let me get offended for you because you're too dumb to do so yourself" stance.

I really hope people don't support anonymous doesn't start trying to find ISIS members. That should be left to the professionals in secret services who actually know what they are doing, rather than bored fifteen year old kids on the internet, pulling up random people they think are suspicious.

It's street vigilante justice and it's BS.

Hey now, let's not be so quick to dismiss Anonymous in this manner.

They actually had managed to unearth a lot of names of Mexican drug cartel members and were threatening to expose them. They only backed down when the Cartels revealed they knew where a few of their people lived as well, and would murder them if they went ahead.

Granted, we don't know if it's the same group of people who will be carrying this out or not. That's the beauty of Anonymous.

[DarkDefeater]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-latest-french-says-attack-mastermind-was-killed/ar-BBn8LwF?ocid=ansmsnnews11

The mastermind of this plot has been eliminated in a police raid.

It is difficult to refrain from delighting in the punishment of the evil sometimes.

[-Robin-]

Re: ISIS seemingly foolishly trying to egg America into an attack by threatening to invade.

That's actually what ISIS wants. They absolutely want the US to form a counterattack force and physically invade and attack their land.

The current structure of ISIS is one firmly mounted in the belief that the actual Apocalypse is coming. In order to fulfill this doomsday narrative as explained in the Quran, the army of Rome must appear on the lands of Dubiq after the people of Mohammed have been reduced to a mere 5000 strong. When the army of Rome appears, Jesus Christ will descend from the heavens and spear the enemy, leading the Islamic people into the End of Days and prosperity.

In this current age, the US army is this "army of Rome," according to ISIS. When ISIS took over the lands of Dubiq, a rather barren land with disadvantageous mountainous landscape, a year ago, ISIS supporters blew up on Twitter about how grand a victory the seizure was. They're trying their damndest to get the US into a furor and launch an army counterattack, so they can re-enact the scenario in the Quran in Dubiq.

Merely bombing the place wouldn't be enough, since supporters will just go undercover for a bit and then relaunch another strike against civilians. The Quran states that the End of Days will come about during the reign of their 12th leader, and the current leader is the 8th in the lineup, so they'll gladly wait. And if other nations do attempt a bona fide campaign, it can convince Islamic communities that the End of Days is coming to pass, and could potentially divide cultures even further to the point of being non-repairable.

 

The current campaign of cutting ISIS's means of communication and sustenance is probably the best course of action. ISIS's ideology with the End of Days requires the Islamic State to be an actual State, with borders and land acquisitions. Cut off their support, they'll slowly crumble and disintegrate.

 

Does that mean more attacks like in Paris will occur? It's probable, sadly. But this is all likely an effort to force a final showdown, and other nations can't be suckered into that. Just keep security in top regard and help refugees out so ISIS can't continue recruiting.

[Candescence]

Incidentally, the attacks were planned via unencrypted SMS. The implications being that mass surveillance, which was already in place in France, simply doesn't work, and that the intelligence community has nobody to blame but itself for failing to detect the terror plot.

[ZDozer]

Now that's an interesting joke: they monitor entire people saying that this will help prevent terrorist attacks, when it doesn't.

Now even those american politicians pushing to be Big Brother lost their argument.