Kids don't need to learn spelling anymore....

[iDEATH]

This argument comes up once every few months, getting pretty sick of hearing it tbh....

 

There's no denying it, kids probably don't need to learn spelling as much as they used too, we're becoming a society more and more dependent of tech for pretty much everything involving writing these days. People always say "well we still write on paper don't we?" but....do we? Seriously, I hardly ever write anything down these days apart from maybe the odd scribbled note or two, not exactly a massive need for spelling.

 

But whether or not kids need it, they should still learn it. Spelling's a valuable skill, one that'll never become fully redundant and one that can only be useful in life.

 

But frankly, it's a moot point, there's no way schools will ever stop teaching spelling & grammar.

[JezMM]

This is kind of like learning to drive an automatic compared to a manual car.  You don't NEED to learn a manual car, but one day in a pinch you might need to use one and then you're stuck.  So spelling and grammar needs to be taught.

 

 

As for cursive... I don't write in cursive, mainly because my second Primary School made me hate it.  When I first learned, I was taught to loop my g's, j's, y's etc to connect to the next letter.  Then I moved schools and they actually told me off for doing so, but fuck 'em I did it anyway.  They could read it couldn't they?  I think as long as your writing is legible you shouldn't inflict a "house style" on kids like that.  There's a big difference between looping your letter tails and stupid shit like putting hearts instead of dots on i.  Maybe if they had been more supportive I would still join up my writing in anything other than my signature.

 

 

 

Anyway, saying kids don't need to learn spelling and grammar in English is as stupid as saying home economics should teach you how to cook microwave ready meals, and the humanities should just grade you on your ability to google shit.

[SteffieMusings]

That professor doesn't seem to even know what he's saying. I remembered many times when I typed something on my phone, auto-spelling would choose the incorrect word, How would the kids know when they're using the incorrect words, when no one would teach them the difference between right and write, for example?

[LunarEdge]

and I thought I was bad for not knowing MLA format going into College (my HS sucked), but I took upon myself to learn it. I guess it's time to establish the "School for Kids who can't read good and wanna learn to do other Stuff Good Too."

[TailsTellsTales]

Part 1/2! I not know people be using abbreviations for anything and I get the green things mainly on spellcheck. I kind of agree and disagree because if you ever seen tv show "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" than you know what I mean. Though will admit the questions they ask are things I was not taught until middle school and high school including those in advanced classes.

The key to solving the education crisis (in U.S.) is to simply move all grades up 2 levels or more. As in 2nd grade will be taught like they're in the 4th grade and even if they struggle more, at least they will more likely be proficient as they call it in 2nd grade and possibly 3rd grade than.

I like this font (comic sans ms) because it is the only font I found that has the lower case "a" and capital "I" the way I like and was taught to write. Including the capital "J" than.

If you were to write 111 in roman numerals and Illinois next to each other this is what you get! IIIIllinois. Confusing right! Cu...

[TailsTellsTales]

Page 2/2! If you were to write 111 in roman numerals and Illinois next to each other this is what you get! IIIIllinois. Confusing right! Cursive writing takes longer to write for me than. It mainly for signatures which makes me thankful that I have short name. I hate cursive because I have to go back and dot the 'i' and 'j' than cross the 't' and 'x' with 'i' and 't' being much common. Capital letters 'F' 'H' 'K' 'X' because must lift writing implement. Our capital cursive letters were allowed to be connected. All my capital letters connected with 'P' 'V' 'W' being tricky. I simply treat as lower case 'p' 'v' 'w' than.

Something funny think about Cursive Numbers!

Edited August 6, 2013 by TailsTellsTales

[Tani Coyote]

Ah, this was a subject covered by John Gatto in his book Dumbing Us Down. It being a critique on the modern education system you can see where this is going.

 

Basically, he suggested some topics, such as arithmetic and reading didn't need to be taught in public school because the nature of society is that these skills will most likely be picked up anyway; he pointed out that public teaching of them is questionably effective given that some places actually have lower literacy rates now than they did prior to public education. While public education may have helped foster a general understanding of some simple topics at the start, it is questionable whether we need teachers for these skills anymore given they often have use at home. Despite the abundance of technology, plenty of writing and math is still done on paper; who uses a calculator for 3+5? We don't need to worry too much about a technological breakdown's effect on those topics.

 

Ultimately, we must remember that our schools are the product of the industrial revolution more than anything else. This is why they are so in need of reform; their structure is fundamentally obsolete as industry's share of the GDP continues to shrink and services take over. President Obama talks of a 21st century government not needing a 20th century bureaucracy... what about a 21st century economy not needing a 19th century education system?

[Blue Blood]

Cursive is used for signatures? Again, over here we just design our own custom scribbles...

[Solkia]

We do that over here too, but most people stick to cursive.

 

I hate cursive, so I just make a "J" and a bunch of squiggles.

[Tara]

Yeah, around here a lot of people I know just write a bunch of scribble scrabble that can pass for letters.  I tend to not do that, because when I'm signing something, I tend to want people to know whom it's from.  Of course, this is rarely ever a problem since in the instance that my signature is ever required, usually my name is stored in a database somewhere anyway, so even if it's nothing but pure chicken scratch, it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to find out who it's supposed to be.  That, and a lot of forms often ask you to write your name in print first and then sign it, which makes that pointless as well.

[Tani Coyote]

Cursive is used for signatures? Again, over here we just design our own custom scribbles...

Cursive is still used for signatures?

I mean seriously, it looks like these guys just write their letters and then a squiggly line next to it.

In all seriousness, yes, cursive's primary purpose on this side of the pond is solely for signatures...

However, it's legal to use an alternate symbol as your signature. It could be a heart for all you want; as I recall you need to establish somewhere in the legal system that's your signature first, however.

[SkyLlama]

They no longer need to learn spelling and grammar? Maybe, but only if they plan to never learn a second language.

 

I don't see how it could be a serious suggestion to not learn either with how much of our world is still firmly rooted in both. I sort of get the lack of grammar because things can still be readable without it (although not well), but spelling? Whatever.

 

I think what confuses me the most is what not discussed in this article. How is one to read (something incredibly important) without being able to spell at the minimum?

[Tani Coyote]

They no longer need to learn spelling and grammar? Maybe, but only if they plan to never learn a second language.

Actually, I was always told most people don't learn proper grammar until they take a foreign language course, go figure. In some ways this is true - I never really remembered what "Articles" or the like were until I took Spanish, at which point remembering the actual structure and the terms used to describe them became important. Strange stuff.

 

I think what confuses me the most is what not discussed in this article. How is one to read (something incredibly important) without being able to spell at the minimum?

It's actually easier to take in something than compose it. Takashi Iizuka understands English just fine but becomes very uncomfortable composing his own English sentences.

Similarly, my father can read just fine, but he often asks for my help in spelling. It's weird how fluency in creating and taking in information can vary, but it's there I guess.

[Katzii]

If you were to write 111 in roman numerals and Illinois next to each other this is what you get! IIIIllinois. 

 

Technically if you write 111 in Roman Numerals, you get CXI

[a mystery]

Off-topic, but:

However, it's legal to use an alternate symbol as your signature. It could be a heart for all you want; as I recall you need to establish somewhere in the legal system that's your signature first, however.

 

Sweet! I'm gonna have to do this someday. I've always wondered if signatures had to be your name in cursive...

[TailsTellsTales]

Technically if you write 111 in Roman Numerals, you get CXI

I bet that felt good for you to write that, I not knew this. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

[188Eternal]

I confess that Spelling was my favourite subject when I was in the sixth and seventh grades. The biggest highlight of my Tuesday mornings was a spelling test with 20 new words.

I actually miss those days.

And now someone's saying that all of these new kids aren't ever going to experience that same wonderful feeling that I lived with?!? 0_o

Jeez. If this truly is reality then perhaps the Mayans were correct and the world has already ended right infront of my eyes.

[SuperStingray]

I feel like I'm supposed to find this appalling, but honestly, I can't find a reason.

 

This is just the way technology has always worked.  I never learned how to build a house.  I never learned how to hunt or harvest food.  I never learned how to do a lot of things that are the basic building blocks of a functioning society.  And I turned out just fucking fine.  In fact, it is exactly because those things have become "a given" in our world that we've been able to move on and do bigger and better things.  Hell, if you ask me spelling is probably one of the most unnecessary institutions we have.  This isn't useful like math which is timeless and important to communicating logical deductions fundamental to how the universe works, or vocabulary and grammar which give our thoughts common semantics and syntax- the only reason we learn spelling is because English (and pretty much every ordinary language ever) isn't naturally intuitive.  If all our letters were only capable of representing one sound like, say, kana, then spelling would have already taken care of itself a long time ago.  No one would even give it a second thought as a concept.  Maybe if we just stopped wasting time perpetuating "they're, there and their" as homophones and just let them become different sounding words, we could save our breath correcting people and have extra time to teach kids more practical things like proper money management.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Stingray 64

[Tara]

I feel like I'm supposed to find this appalling, but honestly, I can't find a reason.

 

This is just the way technology has always worked.  I never learned how to build a house.  I never learned how to hunt or harvest food.  I never learned how to do a lot of things that are the basic building blocks of a functioning society.  And I turned out just fucking fine.  In fact, it is exactly because those things have become "a given" in our world that we've been able to move on and do bigger and better things.  Hell, if you ask me spelling is probably one of the most unnecessary institutions we have.  This isn't useful like math which is timeless and important to communicating logical deductions fundamental to how the universe works, or vocabulary and grammar which give our thoughts common semantics and syntax- the only reason we learn spelling is because English (and pretty much every ordinary language ever) isn't naturally intuitive.  If all our letters were only capable of representing one sound like, say, kana, then spelling would have already taken care of itself a long time ago.  No one would even give it a second thought as a concept.  Maybe if we just stopped wasting time perpetuating "they're, there and their" as homophones and just let them become different sounding words, we could save our breath correcting people and have extra time to teach kids more practical things like proper money management.

I'd still argue that regardless of how we may simplify language, technology has yet to reach a point where we can stop teaching the principles of spelling.  Even shorthand words like "u" in place "you" show a clear understanding of uniform spelling principles, which is something that as of yet can only be taught through verbal instruction.  Granted, I suppose we're not too far off from having to teach the spelling of specific words, but I think that we have a long way to go before learning any form of spelling becomes obsolete.

[TailsTellsTales]

I feel like I'm supposed to find this appalling, but honestly, I can't find a reason.

This is just the way technology has always worked. I never learned how to build a house. I never learned how to hunt or harvest food. I never learned how to do a lot of things that are the basic building blocks of a functioning society. And I turned out just beeping fine. In fact, it is exactly because those things have become "a given" in our world that we've been able to move on and do bigger and better things. Heck, if you ask me spelling is probably one of the most unnecessary institutions we have.

This what people fear because when electricity goes out and disasters happen on global scale, people will be oblivious about. They unable to recover and rebuild. I strongly think survival classes with limited to no technology should be taught in school. There is no more internet or cell phones anymore. If that scares you than we are doomed than! Edited August 10, 2013 by TailsTellsTales

[Tara]

This what people fear because when electricity goes out and disasters happen on global scale, people will be oblivious about. They unable to recover and rebuild. I strongly think survival classes with limited to no technology should be taught in school. There is no more internet or cell phones anymore. If that scares you than we are doomed than!

To be fair, there's not really a huge need for that sort of thing because, at the moment, we don't have a shortage of people who are educated to handle these kind of emergencies.  We have people who help build and restore shelters after storms, for example.  We have people that are educated in the field of agriculture so they can send food to places that need it.  I think when it gets to the point when people are unable to help each other as we do in today's society, then we'll have a need for that sort of education.  But right now, even if there was a widespread internet or power outage, we'd still have plenty of people trained to assist those who need it until things get settled.

[Katzii]

But then surely by that logic, we should be educating those people now?  With upcoming generations, people are going to know less and less, and the previous generations to those will also know less to be able to pass on.  I already fear for my elderly years in terms of receiving medical care, et cetera.

[Uraraka]

If we skip the basics and try and teach the advanced stuff, people will not be able to learn it. Everthing has steps to climb and if you do not climb those steps, then you will not be able to learn harder things. For example, when you play a video game, the first level is easy, and as you go on, the techniques you learned help you proceed in the game. In real life, it is the same. A baby as gotta crawl before it walks, and a kid has to start somewhere in school that is more simple than the advanced stuff. I feel that if kids learned not only the basics, but actually learned how to learn, the advanced stuff would come a little easier. America has this Idea that if we can get first graders to be rocket scientists, we have succeeded in educating them. It is not so, because they  did not take the proper steps, and when it comes to real life, they have no where to look to learn new things. Learning is good for the brain, and if we eliminate classes, what exactly will they be doing for 12 years?

[Tara]

But then surely by that logic, we should be educating those people now?  With upcoming generations, people are going to know less and less, and the previous generations to those will also know less to be able to pass on.  I already fear for my elderly years in terms of receiving medical care, et cetera.

I don't know, depends on what you mean by health care.  I guess it would make sense to teach people how to dress wounds and such, but there's no shortage of people seeking medical degrees, and even if there was, there really isn't anything you can do about it if you're referring to something that is advanced and requires years of study, such as cancer.  As for matters like rebuilding, I don't think there will ever not be a demand for those sort of people, or at least I don't expect it to decline.  Technological advancement has not stopped acts of God, terrorism, or any other forces that might cause collateral damage, and as long as those factors exist, the world will always demand people with the proper strength and training to accomplish the task, and as long as there is that demand, there will people who undergo said training.

 

Even if we may use technology to aid us in accomplishing these things, you have to remember that the world does not run on just one type of energy, which means that we don't advance under the "solar-powered flashlight" motif.  The technology we use to make rebuilding easier and more efficient would probably not be the same technology that wouldn't work in case of a blackout or something like that.  By extension, the technology we use to increase agricultural output would probably not run on the same type of energy that powers our fridge.

 

So yeah, I think some basic skills on what to do should you be without a way to call for help could benefit, but I don't think we're in a such a state where people will simply forget how to build and rebuild or how to give medical assistance to those who need it, especially many of those things are government-funded.

[Katzii]

I'm not saying these are skills that will be forgotten in a week, but as generations go on, with the way things are going, basic fundamentals are going to be lost.

 

I worked at a school for a stint.  Children didn't know how to use analogue clocks, and believed that there were at least 32 days in February.  Secondary school-aged kids.  Life skills or not, that sort of thing is appalling.  Especially in a culture where more and more children are raised in families on benefits and inherit the same lacking work ethic that a lot of their parents have, it's a worrying thing.