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February 12, 2013 in
If you ever played Sonic 3 and Knuckles, and had the patience to collect the 7 chaos emeralds (which were a hell of a lot easier to get than in Sonic 2, by the way) you would unlock Super Sonic. Now, I was too young to grow up with the Mega Drive (Genesis if you must) classics, but, the lack of Super Sonic in the modern games except the final boss irritated me a bit. I LOVED Super Sonic. He was just so cool, faster, more athletic, he could fly, oh, and he was GOLD.
Then, when I got to the Sonic and Knuckles half of the game, I went into the Hidden Palace Zone, and watched as my chaos emeralds were taken away from me. Understandably, I was a little annoyed.
So, begrudgingly, I got to collecting the Super Emeralds. When I was done, I wanted to get Super Sonic back.
I got more. Hyper Sonic was awesome. He had the Hyper Sonic jump attack (don't know the name), could breathe underwater, had after images, and glew in the colours of the Super Emeralds. He was SO COOL!
Now, I give you the inevitable question: Which one do you prefer? For once, I can not pick a favourite.
Also, do you think Hyper Sonic should have been in Sonic Generations, if not playable at least in the trophy room? I sure as hell do.
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February 12, 2013
Hyper Sonic is terrible.
It's like DBZ adding more levels of Super Sayan. It cheapens the entire concept; it turns what was once The Most Powerful into just a stepping stone towards the new The Mo
Super Sonic nowadays is just too powerful for Hyper Sonic to be considered a major step up from him.
February 13, 2013
Yes, more or less. I don't think Super forms are ruined as much by others existing as Super Sayans are, and the Sonic series doesn't have as much Super bloat as DBZ did, but whenever someone suggests
Hyper Sonic ain't even canon.
Super Emeralds were only put in to make the S&K Special Stages accessable in S3&K.
Hyper Sonic was a great reward for getting the 7 Super Emeralds (as was Super Tails and his Flicky army of death).
Would have been nice for Hyper Sonic to have appeared in Generations, but SEGA don't really treat Hyper as canon which is a shame. I for one would love to see the Hyper form return. You never know it might return in Sonic 4 Ep3.
I know its not canon, I'm just asking about personal preference.
Considering that Hyper Sonic is just a flashier Super Sonic (whose most notable abilities were given to both regular and Super Sonics) ... meh. At this point, even Super Sonic is meh to me, with his near-constant gameplay-switching final battles.
Super Sonic nowadays is just too powerful for Hyper Sonic to be considered a major step up from him.
To be fair I don't think Hyper Sonic was ever intended to be anything more than "Super Sonic on steroids" as a little bonus for getting through all the special stages, and nowadays he definitely isn't considered so.
Hyper forms add nothing to the story or the gameplay. Their only point is to add more flashy beams. Again, nothing but bonus entertainment. For the current Sonic narrative, any abilities Hyper Sonic had that are worth keeping can be given to Super Sonic.
Hyper Sonic is terrible.
It's like DBZ adding more levels of Super Sayan. It cheapens the entire concept; it turns what was once The Most Powerful into just a stepping stone towards the new The Most Powerful. And all it adds is more flashing lights and bigger energy beams, nothing that's actually meaningful, nothing that couldn't be added to the level 1 form if they really wanted it.
Like, the original Super Sayan transformation was pretty great. It was the legend of a race of warriors who had fallen under the thumb of an intergalactic tyrant who eventually wiped out all but a small handful of them. And then one of those few survivors goes up against that tyrant, achieves that legendary state, and delivers a righteous beatdown, as revenge and justice for his race. That's not Shakespeare, sure, but there's some meaning to it. And then they go and ruin it by having damn near every sayan do it, some of them just children, and then add more layers of extra glowing and more hair so they can shoot bigger lasers at whatever the bad guy is. It's meaningless, it ruins something relatively elegant and meaningful in favor of cheap spectacle. (and apologies to any DBZ nerds if I've mixed up something here; I haven't watched the show in ages)
For Sonic, while his Super form started as just a bonus so it doesn't have the buildup or symbolism that the Super Sayan transformation does, it fits in fairly smoothly. The emeralds had been established as these super energy sources, and when Sonic gets all 7, he's able to tap into that power to become nigh invulnerable and greatly increase his abilities. In SA we get more information on how the emeralds work, their connection to the user's emotions and the contrast between Sonic and Chaos. Super Sonic edges on becoming a symbol of Sonic's pure heart and indomitable will, a representation of hope against whatever evil or destructive force he faces.
And then there's Hyper Sonic, where they basically go "okay let's make bigger emeralds so Sonic glows more and gets even more powerful!" and that's it. That's all there is to it. It's just more power. And "just more power" is about the lamest and most childish direction you can take a concept.
Gameplay-wise, I like Hyper Sonic's additional abilities, but aesthetically he just looks so stupid. For that petty reason I usually don't bother collecting all 14 Emeralds when replaying Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
I'm glad they never brought that form back. I would like to see Super Tails and the Flickies again once, though, for giggles.
Like, the original Super Sayan transformation was pretty great. It was the legend of a race of warriors who had fallen under the thumb of an intergalactic tyrant who eventually wiped out all but a small handful of them. And then one of those few survivors goes up against that tyrant, achieves that legendary state, and delivers a righteous beatdown, as revenge and justice for his race. That's not Shakespeare, sure, but there's some meaning to it. And then they go and ruin it by having damn near every saiyan do it, some of them just children, and then add more layers of extra glowing and more hair so they can shoot bigger lasers at whatever the bad guy is. It's meaningless, it ruins something relatively elegant and meaningful in favor of cheap spectacle. (and apologies to any DBZ nerds if I've mixed up something here; I haven't watched the show in ages)
As someone who just as avid of a DragonBall fan as he is as a Sonic fan, no hard feelings. Although I disagree with the statements of SSJ should've only be limited to Goku and SSJ somehow being cheapened when it wasn't that big of spectacle to begin with.
Back on topic, I don't like the idea of Hyper Sonic or the thought of him being in another game. The only reason he probably existed was Sega didn't want the special stages of S&K standalone to go to waste so they whipped up seizure Sonic to justify having to play through two sets of Special Stages.
It was interesting at the time, but with Sonic 4 Super Sonic can now breathe underwater, which he should've been able to do since Sonic 2. That only leaves the "double jump in any direction" ability to make Hyper unique from Super, but honestly I'd rather have Super Sonic be able fly like we've seen in every cutscene since Sonic 2 but haven't able to do in the games so far. Something along the lines of Tails' flying style from S3&K for 2D Sonic and Tails' Adventure 1 flying style for 3D Sonic. Make it so it doesn't drain your rings from 50 to 0 in 3 seconds and voila! No more need for Hyper Sonic.
Would that apply to the Super forms considering how we have Super Shadow, Super Silver (for some reason) and (technically) Burning Blaze?
Nah, there's only one version of those. There's no Hyper Shadow, Hyper Silver, Hyper Blaze, etc you get the point.
Yes, more or less. I don't think Super forms are ruined as much by others existing as Super Sayans are, and the Sonic series doesn't have as much Super bloat as DBZ did, but whenever someone suggests everyone getting a Super form, I roll my eyes hard enough to cause a loud grinding sound. Personally I think there are only 3 Super forms that are properly justified; Sonic's, Shadow's (as he's a counterpart to Sonic and was made to use the emeralds), and Blaze's (again being a counterpart to Sonic, and having her own set of emeralds). I didn't like Super Silver (although I didn't like Silver to start with, either), I don't really want to see Super Tails or Knuckles again, and I can't see Super Amy, Super Espio, Super Rouge, etc as anything other than a joke.
My thoughts exactly. I actually wonder if Super Silver's even canon anymore considering his lack of appearances and it existing for no reason other than "so he can fight Solaris".
I enjoyed Hyper Sonic's additional abilities in Sonic 3 and Knuckles and the flashing colors and stars but if I were to be completely honest Super Sonic is probably the better choice. Super Sonic as of late is basically as good if not better than the Hyper form in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. The flashing colors, stars, and after images can also come off as obnoxious and hurt your eyes too. I really feel that Sega just put the Hyper form and Super Emeralds into Sonic 3 and Knuckles to compensate having to do seven more additional Special Stages all over again and give the player a motive for doing the Special Stages instead of just keeping their current Super Sonic form. Sega never treats Hyper Sonic, Knuckles, or Super Tails as canon. I do like Hyper Knuckles and Super Tails but I'm also kind of happy they haven't reappeared to be honest. Sonic goes Super because he's learned how to harness the energies of the Chaos Emeralds and use the power for good. The Super form is an embodiment of his pure heart and will. Other characters such as Shadow and Silver learned to harness these energies as well but I feel everything would be extremely cheapened if almost every character can use the emeralds and go super. For example Amy, Tails, and Knuckles.
Than it'll feel like what happened with DBZ where almost everybody can go Super and everyone is advancing to higher forms which are basically the same exact thing but with longer hair and more powerful attacks. If everyone can become Super than what would make the Chaos Emeralds so special and mysterious anymore? Sonic being able to harness the pure energies of the Chaos Emeralds, to me would be so cheapened if he was constantly ascending to a higher level such as a Hyper form. Hyper form is fun to play as in Sonic 3 and Knuckles and doing fan art for but I'm happy it's not considered canon and ever returned to other Sonic games. I think Sonic X were going to try and incorporate Hyper Sonic but decided against it. The whole "Nazo" thing I really think is just Sonic in his Hyper form and Nazo means "Mystery" or Mysterious" in Japanese so I don't understand why people thought it was a different character entirely? When I look at the picture it looks like Sonic in a Hyper form to me. You can see his green emerald eyes and he's white like his Hyper form.
I completely agree with Diogenes on this. DBZ's super forms were less impressive with the more who could achieve it and the more higher levels that came into existence. I'd also say that the Saiyans always using their Super form to the point of being their basic fighting form hurt its original awesomeness appeal too. Sonic series's super forms should be just Sonic & Shadow - at only one level (Super form with NO Hyper form) and story-wise it should only be a trump card (available to the rest of the gameplay after beating the game).
I just thought, if Hyper Sonic isn't canon, then why is he in a canon game? I wonder if Super Sonic just went on an acid trip and the resulting hallucination was Hyper Sonic. Hmm.....
^ For the same reason you can have 5 Mewtwo in one Pokémon game despite there only being one - Gameplay and Story Segregation.
Canonically, Hyper Sonic never existed. The final boss was fought with Super Sonic. The Super Emeralds were a way to cope with 14 Special Stages existing in S3&K.
Actually, you can have as many as you want until your party and PC are full, but I'm going off topic now. XD
I prefer reasoning that Hyper Sonic was a one time only deal, much like Cyborg gaining that massive power boost in Teen Titans and repairing himself/kicking Brother Blood's skidplate. It hasn't happened since because it literally can't. The Chaos Emeralds stayed juiced up, and future uses just result in a more amped up Super Sonic.
That said, since they seem to love Sonic variants, there's always the questions of what could happen if Sonic were to directly transform from the Sol Emeralds or Master Emerald. Burning Sonic? Emerald Power Sonic? Super Sonic variants a la the comics? Endless Interesting possibilities.
That said, Super Silver is most definitely canon, and arguably a bigger thing to Sonic Team than Burning Blaze. He wouldn't have gotten a toy release and new artwork if he wasn't.
But enough about Sonic, I wanna see Knuckles power up off of the Master Emerald in a platforming game. Bonus points if he combines both the earthquake powers from ASR and the explosive super punches from Heroes.
I liked the hyper forms for what they were -an extra old save bonus for anyone who locked-on Sonic 3 to Sonic & Knuckles-, but there's isn't any reason for them to be brought back, gameplay-wise or story-wise. If anything, they could just give the existing Super Sonic all of Hyper Sonic's existing powers-I mean they already gave Super Sonic the ability to breathe underwater (something exclusive to Hyper Sonic in S3&K) in Sonic 4. Or they could have the player unlock them as additional powers to Super Sonic's abilities, whether it be another set of Special Stages of considerably higher difficulty (which were fundamentally what the Super Emerald special stages were) or some other collectable item.
I enjoyed Hyper Sonic in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It added an extra depth of reward to a game with an extra set of levels. It was one of the things which made the marathon-ish game feel really magical and special to me. I later realized that I prefer to just have one Super Sonic in general, but if they later make a game like Sonic 3 & Knuckles in length and system (or two games later merged for that matter), I would love to see Hyper Sonic again as an added reward.
I just don't get what happened to Super Knuckles.
Considering he actually used the emeralds, and didn't require a lock on to use his powers.
They don't want to risk anyone upstaging Sonic, unless they're new.
Diogenes and others pretty much speak my point for me.
Hyper Sonic was a fun and nostalgic bonus in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, but I wouldn't want to bring it back. In my opinion, the concept of Sonic going "Super" is getting a little stale for me in general, but that's an argument best saved for another time.
Story-wise, Hyper Sonic never existed. He was just a non-canon bonus for scoring an additional seven emeralds whose novelty wears off in about five seconds. Gameplay-wise, I can't picture it being any different from Super Sonic because Super Sonic is already so super-powerful that going one step further would be so unnecessary and pointless that the only thought going through my mind is,. "Well, hey, fancy that! Now I'm a different color!"
So yes, as cool as he was in the Genesis era, he's not an element I would like to see return. Diogenes also made a point about super forms for other characters that I'd have to agree with. Every character having a super form would probably be incredibly pointless and annoying and ruin whatever appeal and freshness that the Super forms might still have. Sonic, Shadow, and Blaze having one I guess is justifiable, but actually, I'm kind of on the boat that Knuckles should have had one before Shadow. He is the guardian of the Master Emerald, is he not? Or at least, was. You would think someone with such a close tie would be able to utilize the tools he's destined to protect. I mean, he's clearly able to command the Master Emerald in SA2, so why can't he use the Chaos Emeralds to power himself up? Is it because he doesn't want people laughing at his pink dreadlocks? Eh, whatever the case, I just think I would have liked it more if Knuckles were the one to get a canon super-form before Shadow.
As for the original question in the topic, which form I prefer, even from non-canonincal or gameplay standpoint, I'd have to say Super Sonic. Aesthetically, he is much more pleasing. Hyper Sonic's multicolored nature is cool for about five minutes before it just becomes seizure-enducing.
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