So EXACTLY how much rehash is in E1?

[Blue Blood]

Ken Balough to the rescue

http://segabits.com/...hrowback-level/

Rescue what?

Episode 1 is all rehashes and sucks for it.

Episode 2 still has some rehashes.

The perfect balance of of addressing flaws and continuing the Sonic 4 trend of not giving a fuck!

[Nintendoga]

Ken's Quote

“This brings up a very interesting topic. The reality is that after 20 years of games, it’s super easy to say something is a re-hash; becouse there are only a limited number of terrain types in the world. If we do a “Cave” enviroment, people will say “oh thats like, Mystic Cave zone or Crystal Cave” or if it’s a African enviroment people will say its a rehash of Savannh Citadel, etc. You get the idea.

Episode I Zones were definetly a throwback to the origional Zones, and I think in a nice way, since we all loved the Genesis/Mega Drive Sonics, and it brought us back to that era of gaming.

Ep II however has new Zones that we hope will keep people happy. In fact there is only (1) zone that is a genuine throwback – but that actually is more how the story unveils than anything else.

What I can say is that you’ll see your first look at Sonic 4 Episode II, sooner than you think, as we have some really cool unveilings this month.”

Say, I wonder what he means by cool unveilings this month? Normally that would mean footage, but with Sega that can mean anything from a Logo to hell, even the credits.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Mike Dawson

[Jeffhog]

Definitely going to be Aquatic Ruin. Betting my two cents on it.

[Blue Blood]

So, does this pretty much confirm the return of Whisps?!

Edited February 12, 2012 by HYDROCITEE

[Detective Shadzter]

Rescue what?

[Blue Blood]

I was referring to him saying this episode only has one throwback level to put all of the rehash worries to rest. I'd rather there be none at all too, but it's better than all of them being throwbacks.

[Old dead account]

I think Splash Hill is actually the only original level because I don't recall a Plastic Hill Zone

Edited February 12, 2012 by Prince Solaris

[Soniman]

I think it's fine if it's just one damn level. Mario does this all the time, I saw no problem with it there (well....maybe) and I don't here.

[-Robin-]

I'm curious as to why the flip platform would be considered "enough of a shot," given that there is nothing like it that I can recall.

Having one throwback is perfectly fine for me. Ken even mentions that the throwback is meant for story purposes more than anything else, so it's not like they weren't planning anything for the level.

[Diogenes]

If Ken's not BSing, the one rehash is almost certainly an Aquatic Ruin knockoff. But I can't imagine how an ARZ knockoff could possibly be plot-justified; it's such an utterly arbitrary level. And if he's talking about a Sonic CD stage knockoff, what's all this ARZ-esque stuff for?

And frankly I find his initial comment about there only being a certain number of locations is kind of BS. I mean, yeah, unless you go really obscure you'll eventually run out of broad archetypes, but not every example of an archetype is a ripoff of a previous one. Hell, they managed to fit Chemical Plant and Metropolis in the same game without it feeling like a retread.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Diogenes

[The future]

Wish SEGA looked at some of the fan made games that have videos on youtube. E1 didn't have their own vibe to the rest of the Sonic series. Green Hill is nothing like Emerald Hill and certainly nothing like Angel Island. Labrynth is nothing like Aquatic Ruin or Hydrocity. Casino Night is nothing like Spring Yard or Carnival Night.

Edited February 12, 2012 by The future

[Tornado]

The 'throwback level' is almost definitely going to be Aquatic Ruin.

Blue Blood: The Level

[Spooky Mulder]

How can Aquatic Ruin have anything to do with the plot? This is starting to worry me because back when E1 was being previewed Ken tried say that Casino Street wasn't based on Casino Night.

At this point I'm half expecting:

Totally-Not-Aquatic Ruin Zone

Any-Resemblance-to-Sandopolis-is-Purely-Coincidental Zone

This-Isn't-A-Rehash-of-Mushroom Hill Zone

Stardust Speedway Zone

SEE GUYZ ONLY ONE THROWBACK.

[Tornado]

You forgot about Incidentally-On-a-Frozen-Mountain-Peak-But-Not-At-All-an-Ice-Cap Zone.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Gilda

[Big Boss (legendsneverdie)]

I'm alright with one throwback/rehashed zone, it's not like the genesis games didn't do anything like that.

[Semi-colon e]

You forgot about Incidentally-On-a-Frozen-Mountain-Peak-But-Not-At-All-an-Ice-Cap Zone.

So Ice Cap from Adventure? Or Ice Mountain?

Anyway, I'm okay with it as long as it isn't totally a rehash and tries something new with it. I know Episode 1 had some occasionally new gimmicks, but the rest of the time it was so damn similar to Sonics 1 and 2 it was almost pointless.

[Marcello]

I was referring to him saying this episode only has one throwback level to put all of the rehash worries to rest. I'd rather there be none at all too, but it's better than all of them being throwbacks.

How much can we trust the guy, though? This is the same guy who said Casino Street wasn't based off of Casino Night, the same guy who just said a few months ago E2 would be all new levels.

[Pawn]

If Ken's not BSing, the one rehash is almost certainly an Aquatic Ruin knockoff. But I can't imagine how an ARZ knockoff could possibly be plot-justified; it's such an utterly arbitrary level. And if he's talking about a Sonic CD stage knockoff, what's all this ARZ-esque stuff for?

The only way I can think of it being connected to the plot is if the Death Egg fell there.

And frankly I find his initial comment about there only being a certain number of locations is kind of BS. I mean, yeah, unless you go really obscure you'll eventually run out of broad archetypes, but not every example of an archetype is a ripoff of a previous one. Hell, they managed to fit Chemical Plant and Metropolis in the same game without it feeling like a retread.

Agreed. Even the two he references, Mystic Cave and Crystal Cave (had to look that one up), look virtually nothing alike.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Lungo

[Salamander]

He wasn't saying that Mystic Cave and Crystal Cave looked alike, he was just saying that they're cave-themed levels (which is undeniable - it's right there in the names) - in other words, that if they made a level in a cave then people who know Sonic's history would inevitably find a level that it resembles, with MC and CC being arbitrary examples of such prior cave levels. If we examine his post on the face of it, then we're looking at one level which, like all Episode 1's levels, bears an undisguised resemblance to a classic level - and all of the other levels don't, even if they do share broad themes. It's the difference between doing a Mystic Cave remake and calling it Mystical Cave, and doing a fresh cave level that is based on cave motifs rather than being based on a pre-existing level.

If anything, he was making a low-key attack on categorisation of levels according to broad archetypes, not saying that it's legitimate to do so. Each level should be looked at as its own level, even if its name happens to share a word with a previous level's name.

[Blue Blood]

And what we're saying that what he just said is bullshit. You know how Mushroom Hill and Green Hill are nothing alike, or how Mystic Cave and Crystal Cave bear no similarities? Nobody gives a damn because they're couldn't be more different. And the complete opposite it true of all the stages in E1 because they're almost exactly alike. There's a thousand ways to do any trope.

[Solid SOAP]

I would be fine with desert and snow levels so long as there was something original about them, plus we haven't seen one in ages. Green Hills, Casinos, Caves, and Factories/Space levels are in just about every Sonic game to some degree, the other tropes can be pretty rare.

[Tornado]

So Ice Cap from Adventure? Or Ice Mountain?

Say what you will about Sonic Advance, but at least when it wholesale copied level ideas from Sonic 2 it made pains to make sure they looked different (Ice Mountain being perhaps the exception, yes).

Edited February 12, 2012 by Gilda

[Semi-colon e]

Say what you will about Sonic Advance, but at least when it wholesale copied level ideas from Sonic 2 it made pains to make sure they looked different (Ice Mountain being perhaps the exception, yes).

Even then, Ice Mountain had a different style in terms of music and pacing as well as being a water level and not having the boarding.