Multiple Characters

[thedarkknight]

If you were the developer at Sonic Team and got forced to have multiple characters, how would you design them?

I would make all characters as fast as Sonic but each character has an unique ability. (I said this in the "Status Quo thread)

Option 1: (Character name and unique ability)

• Sonic: Boost
  
• Shadow: Chaos Powers
  
• Silver: ESP powers like in 06
  
  
  Option 2:
  • Sonic: Boost
    
  • Shadow: Chaos Powers
    
  • Silver: ESP powers
    
  • Blaze: Fire
    

  I left out Tails and Knuckles because I don't like them.

Edited August 1, 2011 by thedarkknight

[Vertekins]

I for one would stop making Shadow Sonic v2.0

It's true of Battle, Chronicles, 06 and SatBK. Shadow is basically a superior Sonic. Who would want to use Sonic over Lancelot in SatBK in the missions where Lancelot is availiable to be played ESPECIALLY when Lancelot has Ddraig Goch equipped as his weapon and therefore can use Soul Surge attacks that have a massive radius as well as Chaos Spears with his normal attacks, far exceeding anything Sonic can do in an insanely unbalanced way? The only thing inferior about Lancelot is his sucky and delayed wall attack.

Whilst in Chronicles, he tends to have higher stats, has a OHKO move with perfect input, Armor-Piercing Chaos Spear, Medium Armor and Damage Output and gets 3 turns per round, enhancing his useability and therefore his vast superiority.

In Battle, Sonic Team had the audacity to make his foot speed faster than Sonic whilst giving him basic attacks of decent power and with virtually no delay time compared to Sonic. The only thing inferior about him compared to Sonic is his Heal Ability and even then it's inferiority is only marginal.

SONIC '06 takes the biscuit regarding his extreme similarity to Sonic and his superiority. He can chain attacks after homing attacking, gets the Chaos Snap, Chaos Spear and Chaos Lance moves and his spin kick has a vacumn-like attribute which sucks in enemies. Sonic's moveset and it's distinct attributes suck in comparison, including the gems.

I'd love to see Shadow get a more varied movepool without shamelessly aping Sonic's and doing it much better.

[Gamenerd]

Why are people negative repping this post? Is it just because Thedarkknight posted it? Aside from saying he doesn't like Tails and Knuckles, which is a valid opinion for him to hold, I see nothing wrong with him asking what we'd like to see in terms of playable characters.

As far as what I'd personally like to see, I'd put a cap on it at four playable characters maximum for a game that runs off of the Generations engine (I say Generations engine because personally in the future I'd like to see more of a combination of the 2D Classic gameplay but faster, and the 3D Modern gameplay but slower). I'm not entirely sure what playable characters they would be because Sonic, Tails and Knuckles isn't always a relevant trio. Sonic and Tails for sure, with Tails being a slightly slower Sonic with flight abilities and a less powerful boost (if any at all?). As for the other two, perhaps they could shift it up per game - one game we'd have Sonic, Tails, Shadow and Vector, whilst in the next we'd have Sonic, Tails, Amy and Omega; or Sonic, Tails, Espio and Rouge.

I have no idea how these characters would play because the Unleashed/Generations engine is a whole new realm entirely when it comes to bringing multiple playable characters back, but a shifting roster per game would keep character relationships fresh and interesting.

[Milo]

@OP .......indeed.

3D gameplay (everyone has the spin jump)

Sonic: Homing Attack, Stomp, Boost Guage. The fastest of the group when it comes to running, of course.

Tails: Temp. flight for 45 sec, "Tail Whip" attack (uses his tails to do a swipe attack at enemies, can go for medium distances). Can also use that arm cannon from Sonic Battle to shoot projectiles and access powerups. Not as fast as Sonic while running but can be just as fast at top speed.

Knuckles: Can punch enemies and destroy obstacles that reveal hidden alternative paths simply by running into them (protected by fists). Also can glide, climb/crawl on walls, and dig through specially marked areas to discover secret paths. A little bit slower than Tails when it comes to running, but can glide almost as fast as he can fly.

Amy: Can attack with her hammer by swinging it forward in front of her (can destroy enemies at close/medium distances) and use as a boomerang (throw it to destroy enemies at far distances, and have it come back to you). Also can use her hammer as a insta-shield when jumping. Faster than Tails when it comes to running, but still not as fast as Sonic, even at top speed. Can also use her hammer to destroy obstacles and the ground below to access hidden paths.

2D gameplay:

Everyone pretty much has the same moveset as 3D gameplay, except with spindash (excluding Amy. Amy can use the "Super Peel-Out" variation from the Advance games as a replacement.).

That's all I got. Not in the mood to think up ideas for other characters...or has the feeling that I need to anyway.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Ananze

[JezMM]

Now shock horror, I have nothing against the idea of a Sonic Adventure 3 with lots of totally different multiple characters (as long as Sonic has a SERIOUS majority of gameplay overall), but I know that'd be a terrible idea for the series' popularity.

For me I'd just like to see Sonic Advance but in 3D in terms of character types. Sure it would make Sonic a "hard" mode again, but I'm okay with that, really. Obviously throw in at least Shadow too (possibly instead of Cream) since he's more popular.

But hey, while we're dreaming, this was my idea of Sonic Adventure 3:

Sonic: Unleashed Daytime gameplay

Tails: Similar to Sonic Adventure but his own custom designed levels. I guess level design and pace would be somewhat similar to Sonic Robo Blast 2 in my head (just with less jumping on tiny sprites of springs etc).

Knuckles: Similar to Sonic Adventure 2 but more structured, better more intuitive levels/clues and almost Zelda style puzzles. Could also perhaps include some combat influences from the Werehog.

Shadow: Basically ShTH. Slower than Sonic but gunplay and... sigh... I GUESS vehicles if done right?

Amy: Similar to Sonic Adventure. Standard platforming at a slower pace.

Cream: Like Sonic 3D in... well, 3D. Explore large levels to find Chao rather than persue a linear goal.

Rouge: Think "Security Hall" but linear. All her levels are thematically stealth based and require you to make a lot of use of gliding to get around and avoid security. Emphasis on little to NO slow-paced Metal Gear Solid/Zelda OoT's Hyrule Castle type bits.

Silver: Same as 2006 but better... I guess... if he can even be made relevant to the story.

Team Chaotix: Sonic Heroes style play but... again, better.

Blaze: She's really similar to Sonic so let's say her gameplay can be 2D exclusive or something.

Eggman: Fly around in a customisable Eggmobile or stomp around in the Egg Walker as the level calls for it. Similar to Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts, but a bit more limited in terms of design and much more linear (multiple routes through levels though) and not at all mission based.

^ I would enjoy this but really I enjoy exclusively Sonic Unleashed daytime gameplay even more so it's just a random idea.

Edited August 1, 2011 by JezMM

[Kuzu]

Who would want to use Sonic over Lancelot in SatBK in the missions where Lancelot is availiable to be played ESPECIALLY when Lancelot has Ddraig Goch equipped as his weapon and therefore can use Soul Surge attacks that have a massive radius as well as Chaos Spears with his normal attacks, far exceeding anything Sonic can do in an insanely unbalanced way? The only thing inferior about Lancelot is his sucky and delayed wall attack.

Sonic's attacks are faster than Lancelot's so Sonic is better when it comes for speed runs, while Lancelot is more suited for a higher body count. Trust me I find uses for both of them.

Whilst in Chronicles, he tends to have higher stats, has a OHKO move with perfect input, Armor-Piercing Chaos Spear, Medium Armor and Damage Output and gets 3 turns per round, enhancing his useability and therefore his vast superiority.

That OHKO move has only a 50% chance of hitting, even when input correctly, I find myself rarely using it because of that, Sonic can attack just as many times as Shadow, and he has the only Team move with 4 members.

In Battle, Sonic Team had the audacity to make his foot speed faster than Sonic whilst giving him basic attacks of decent power and with virtually no delay time compared to Sonic. The only thing inferior about him compared to Sonic is his Heal Ability and even then it's inferiority is only marginal.

No argument here.

SONIC '06 takes the biscuit regarding his extreme similarity to Sonic and his superiority. He can chain attacks after homing attacking, gets the Chaos Snap, Chaos Spear and Chaos Lance moves and his spin kick has a vacumn-like attribute which sucks in enemies. Sonic's moveset and it's distinct attributes suck in comparison, including the gems.

Shadow is also slower than Sonic.

I'd love to see Shadow get a more varied movepool without shamelessly aping Sonic's and doing it much better.

Ya know I don't get this, when Shadow is similar to Sonic people complain he's a palette swap, but when he's significantly different, he's accused of being overpowered?

Shadow naturally has more power than Sonic, this is a given. If Shadow doesn't have any of those powers, he's boring to play as, I'd rather him be overpowered than be just palette swap.

I mean come on, someone with the title of Ultimate Life Form, obviously he's going to be a bit overpowered.

[The Weeb with No Name]

Shadow the Hedgehog: All day, every day.

[Vertekins]

Sonic's attacks are faster than Lancelot's so Sonic is better when it comes for speed runs, while Lancelot is more suited for a higher body count. Trust me I find uses for both of them.

Ok I know it's easy to find a use for them but speed running isn't a major element of the game. Therefore, Lancelot is pretty much the number one choice utility and effectiveness wise and I consider him to be hugely unbalanced and overpowered as a result.

Besides, Lancelot is by far fast enough to compensate for anything. Have you seen just how fast he can run uninhibited with Ddraig Goch/Knight of Chaos equipped/activated? Besides that, his ability to teleport to an enemies location to inflict direct damage in Soul Surge as well as move forward extremely fast when there isn't enemies in the vicinity whilst in Soul Surge practically negates any problems with his maneavorability. His only issue is on walls, where his mobility and speed is compromised and his attack has an almost suicidal delay time and linearity.

That OHKO move has only a 50% chance of hitting, even when input correctly, I find myself rarely using it because of that, Sonic can attack just as many times as Shadow, and he has the only Team move with 4 members.

60% at level 3. Perhaps unreliable but it's going to succeed more time than it's going to fail provided there is perfect input. OHKO is an undeniably powerful effect. Also, I kind of doubt that many players will find themselves utilizing Hail Storm when it absolutely requires a character who sucks hard (Tails) and when they can inflict much more cheaper and greater damage with only two characters in the form of Echidna Rush. Doesn't concern Shadow but it still shows up Hail Storm's lack of useability.

Shadow is also slower than Sonic.

Yet not to the degree that it shoots a hole in his capabilities in '06.

Ya know I don't get this, when Shadow is similar to Sonic people complain he's a palette swap, but when he's significantly different, he's accused of being overpowered?

But he isn't significantly different when it comes to his basic abilities. They're just so much more effective and powerful, which any player of '06 will tell you is what Sonic should've had too because it's lame performing homing attack after homing attack and doing sweep kicks of comparitively much less usefulness. Any player worth their salt will say that Shadow's move attributes should've been applied to Sonic as well to make him less annoying to play as and more effective with his moves.

Shadow's air of being Sonic v2.0 leads to a lack of variability in the game. I think it's possible to give Shadow a moveset that makes him unique and does justice to his power. It's when he's turned into a superior version of Sonic that gets me in all his unbalanced-ness in comparison as well as his sameyness.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Verte

[Diogenes]

Everyone should have the same basic gameplay, S3&K style. None of this genre roulette crap that started with SA; that shit's inexcusable and hasn't done a single bit of good for the series. Now let me see if I can find the last time I talked about this, and make a few tweaks...ah, yes:

Common Controls (3D):

Left Stick: Movement

A: Jump

A (in midair): Homing Attack (unlike the existing homing attack's N-shaped zigzag, the new homing attack would keep your horizontal speed when hitting an enemy, giving you a motion much closer to a normal bounce arc)

B (on ground): Ground Action (character-specific)

B (in midair): Air Action (character-specific)

X/Y: Basic Attack (character-specific)

L1: Run (increases acceleration and top speed, and may have other effects, but requires energy. Energy regenerates slowly over time, and can be gained faster by defeating enemies, getting items, maybe doing tricks...I haven't decided specifically)

R1: Duck/Roll (duck when not moving, roll when moving. Can be used to curl up in midair as well)

L2/R2: Camera control (probably "center behind character")

Right Stick: Camera control

Everyone has the homing attack now, since I'm pretty convinced you need some sort of assistance when you bring this series into 3D. The run action is my replacement for the boost; it gives you a more gradual increase in speed rather than the overwhelming boost of the...boost, and it has some character-specific effects. The spindash may or may not be a common action (duck+jump, if it is).

Common Controls (2D):

Left Stick/Dpad: Movement

A: Jump

B (on ground): Ground Action

A/B (in midair): Air Action

X/Y: Basic Attack (this may not be necessary in 2D)

L1/R1/whatever: Run

Down: Duck/Roll

Pretty much the same as 3D, just with abilities that don't make much sense in 2D removed.

Some characters (personally I'd have as many characters as is reasonable to make, all of them optional. This is just the few I have a mostly-complete moveset for, tho'):

Sonic: The fastest character, obviously enough. His abilities are fairly basic, but effective. Also he has a walljump.

Basic Attack: Sweep kick (while standing)/slide kick (while moving)/stomp (in midair): Short ranged (though not too short) melee attacks.

Ground Action: ???: The spindash if it isn't a common action, otherwise...I dunno.

Air Action: ???: Maybe a double jump...or the instashield...I dunno.

Run: Sonic Dash: The fastest run ability, and also one of the cheapest, but with no extra effects.

Tails: Not as fast as Sonic, but very lightweight; his flight gives him a lot of maneuverability.

Basic Attack: Tailspin: Like in SA. Hold the button to continue spinning.

Ground Action: ???

Air Action: Flight: Works more like SA than the 2D games; hold to rise, release to float down.

Run: ???: Can't think of anything special for Tails to do. Most likely it'd be slower but even cheaper than Sonic's, tho'.

Knuckles: As always, Knuckles is an odd mix of power and utility. He can climb on certain surfaces.

Basic Attack: Punch combo (while on ground)/drill dive (in midair): For the punch combo, two punches, then maybe a dashing punch or an arcing uppercut kind of thing. Maybe steal that drill attack from the werehog for a running attack.

Ground Action: Dig(?): I like the idea of giving him Colors' drill power, but I'm not sure what to do with it in 3D (and I don't want to just disable it in 3D sections as Colors did).

Air Action: Glide: Works pretty much as it always has. Possibly having it drop faster (though not as fast as Heroes' drop-like-a-stone-unless-there's-a-fan triangle dive) so it's less abusable.

Run: Knuckle Charge: Only gives a mild increase in speed, but once he's above a certain speed, he'll automatically smash through any enemy or obstacle in his way.

Blaze: Most (all?) of her attacks involve fire, which lets her burn her way into exclusive paths.

Basic Attack: Fireball: Shoots fireballs at enemies. Uses energy.

Ground Action: Spindash(?)

Air Action: ???

Run: Flame Boost: Blaze is engulfed in flames, protecting her from enemies and some attacks. Has one of the highest energy costs, and may not work underwater.

Shadow: His abilities are powerful, but they also have high energy costs.

Basic Attack: Chaos Spear: Shoots chaos spears at enemies. Uses energy.

Ground Action: Chaos Control: Stops time, but drains energy quickly.

Air Action: ???: Maybe also Chaos Control...or maybe some sort of Chaos Control+flight? (under player control, though, not like ShtH).

Run: Air Dash: Similar to Sonic's, but his air shoes allow him to stand on water even when not moving. Has a higher cost to compensate.

Fang: Fang's the odd one of the group, as he lacks the homing attack and all the spinning abilities (though he does have a slide kick to replace the basic roll).

Basic Attack: Revolver: More than enough to kill anything that moves.

Ground Action: ???

Air Action: Tail Pogo: Basically the bounce attack, lets him bounce higher than a jump and destroy enemies from above.

Run: ???

[Kuzu]

Ok I know it's easy to find a use for them but speed running isn't a major element of the game. Therefore, Lancelot is pretty much the number one choice utility and effectiveness wise and I consider him to be hugely unbalanced and overpowered as a result.

But Lancelot is only used in 5 out of 12 stages, that's less than half, seeing how limited Lancelot is compared to Sonic, wouldn't that mean Sonic is more useful.

Besides, Lancelot is by far fast enough to compensate for anything. Have you seen just how fast he can run uninhibited with Ddraig Goch/Knight of Chaos equipped/activated? Besides that, his ability to teleport to an enemies location to inflict direct damage in Soul Surge as well as move forward extremely fast when there isn't enemies in the vicinity whilst in Soul Surge practically negates any problems with his maneavorability. His only issue is on walls, where his mobility and speed is compromised and his attack has an almost suicidal delay time and linearity.

Sonic is even faster than that when using Cavalier style AND when you've leveled up to the final stage of Knighthood. Sonic's Soul Surge does the same thing as Lancelot's the only real difference is that Lancelot's has more Range while Sonic's is faster.

60% at level 3. Perhaps unreliable but it's going to succeed more time than it's going to fail provided there is perfect input. OHKO is an undeniably powerful effect. Also, I kind of doubt that many players will find themselves utilizing Hail Storm when it absolutely requires a character who sucks hard (Tails) and when they can inflict much more cheaper and greater damage with only two characters in the form of Echidna Rush. Doesn't concern Shadow but it still shows up Hail Storm's lack of useability.

I found myself rarely using it considering how hard the input is. Its a double edged sword, you have chance of missing just as much of chance of hitting. If it was 100% I'd agree with you, but considering the poor accuracy of it, Its not as overpowered as you're making it out to be.

Yet not to the degree that it shoots a hole in his capabilities in '06.

Sonc also has the Purple Gem, which is even more of a game breaker than Shadow really. Sonic is the true overpowered one in 06.

Red Gem allows you to keep you're time low

Purple Gem allows you to bypass pretty much ANY level.

Shadow's abilities come nowhere near to that.

But he isn't significantly different when it comes to his basic abilities. They're just so much more effective and powerful

Except when he's not, from my knowledge the only time Shadow was more powerful than Sonic was in battle.

which any player of '06 will tell you is what Sonic should've had too because it's lame performing homing attack after homing attack and doing sweep kicks of comparitively much less usefulness.

Once again Sonic has the purple Gem, which is better than anything Shadow can do.

Shadow's air of being Sonic v2.0 leads to a lack of variability in the game.

Making him a palette swap makes for even LESS variety.

I think it's possible to give Shadow a moveset that makes him unique and does justice to his power. It's when he's turned into a superior version of Sonic that gets me in all his unbalanced-ness in comparison as well as his sameyness.

The only time he's superior version of Sonic is in Battle and Black Knight, and like I said he's only usable in handful of stages in Black Knight.

There's no way to make Shadow playable without him being similar to Sonic, his entire MO was being similar yet different to Sonic, he can't fly like Tails, he can't Glide like Knuckles, he's supposed to be the Shadow of Sonic, hence why they're movesets are similar.. Unless you put Shadow in his own game(Like that's ever going to happen again) there's no way around this.

I mean hell 06 is possibly the closest to them being completely different, and you hate even that.

[Diogenes]

Making him a palette swap makes for even LESS variety.

No one wants this, I don't know why you're bringing it up.

There's no way to make Shadow playable without him being similar to Sonic, his entire MO was being similar yet different to Sonic, he can't fly like Tails, he can't Glide like Knuckles

But he can warp spacetime to teleport, shoot energy lances, slow time, etc etc. So why can't we use that? edit: Also rocket shoes. Edited August 1, 2011 by Diogenes

[E-25]

Total Shadow topic... oh well, free excuse to post this again.

Sonic the Hedgehog

Circle Pad: Default movement controls. (Medium/Fast acceleration, highest top speed)

A to jump.

A in the air for instashield or active shield’s attack. (Bubble = Bounce; Lightning = Spark jump; Fire Shield = Fireball air dash)

B on the ground for a 3 spin/slide attack.

B in the air to homing attack.

Y on the ground to slide (holding the slide for too long will slow you down but has a longer window of opportunity the faster you are going)

Y in the air to stomp.

X and hold on the ground to autocharge a spindash; X while running to spin (unlike the slide it is highly affected by slope)

X in the air to air dash.

D-Pad to crouch/ look up. Tap the A button while holding down to charge up a spindash; while holding up to charge the peel-out.

L, R, and touchscreen do nothing in 2D areas and move the camera in 3D sections (unless cinematic, see below)

In cinematic sections, the L and R buttons are used to quick-step.

L, R, and D-Pad for tricks after hitting a blue spring/yellow ramp/rainbow loop.

[Kuzu]

No one wants this, I don't know why you're bringing it up.

[Diogenes]

Also, I don't see why everyone needs the homing attack. It comes off as extremely lazy both in terms of character usage

[Kuzu]

What's a "basic ability" and why don't Shadow's chaos powers or air shoes count?

I'm referring to the A>A action, but then again since you'd want every character to have a homing attack that's not much of a problem.

[Diogenes]

I'm referring to the A>A action

Okay, so why can't his chaos powers or air shoes be used to create one? He may not have a unique one now, but that doesn't mean he can't be given one based on the abilities he's been shown to have.

[Kuzu]

Okay, so why can't his chaos powers or air shoes be used to create one? He may not have a unique one now, but that doesn't mean he can't be given one based on the abilities he's been shown to have.

Don't know what air Shoes would be, but if the Chaos Powers thing gets people to stop complaining "Baw Shadow's more powerful than Sonic" then by all means.

[Chaos Warp]

Ok, here we go.....

All characters have the same running speed (Sonic Generations modern speed without boosting, which is the gameplay I am basing this off) and basic controls, but each character has unique actions.

Sorry this took me so long to post, I had to really think this through.

Common Actions

L Stick: Move around

A: Jump/Spin Jump: Self explanatory, but carries your momentum like in the classics. Tap a for a short hop, but hold A to activate the spin jump, ala Unleashed style games.

L and R Button: Quickstep:(Slightly different for each character)

R Stick: Camera Control

Y within appropriate area: Action (for activating switches and the like)

B in air: Stomp(Again, slightly different for each character)

Click R Stick: Center camera back behind character

Details: All characters have an energy gauge that is used for one of their actions. It self recharges itself(how fast it does depends on the character). If prolonged use is required, then energy refill items will be placed appropriately

Characters:

(Using spoilers because of excessively long posts)

Sonic's Moveset

A in air: Homing Attack/Jump Dash: Self explanatory, like it was in Sonic Adventure with it's shorter range, but the speed of it (and the targeting crosshairs) would be the same as in unleashed. (Level design would NOT be based on it, it is just Sonic's way of attacking enemies)

X on ground while moving/Energy Gauge move: Boost: Mostly the same as it is in Generations Modern, but does not kill enemies, just pushes them aside(if you push one into the other, they still get destroyed though). Turning is impossible during this, and it consumes the Energy Gauge fast, so it cannot be just held the whole level, it consumes the gauge in about 3 seconds. Sonic's gauge would take about 10 seconds to charge from empty to full, so you have to be strategic about where to use it/can't spam it.

B on ground: Roll/Slide: If you tap the button while moving, Sonic will roll like he did in the classics. This can be used to gain speed on downhill slopes without using boost energy, and attack enemies, again like in the classics. Turning ability is cut if half from while running, and is proportionate to how fast you are rolling. Tap B again to uncurl. Hold B, however, and Sonic will go straight from his, "starting to roll", animation to a slide, sort of like Sa2's somersault slide. The slide itself works like it does in Sonic Unleashed/Colours/Generations Modern. You cannot do this when you are already rolling, only when you are initially pressing the button from a walk/jog/run.

L/R Triggers: Drift: Again, same as it works in Sonic Unleashed/Colours/Generations Modern(with Generation's spindash drift animation), only this time you can only use the triggers.

Y near rings: Light dash: It works like it did in Sa2, Unleashed's did not feel very good to me and was kinda iffy with activation.

Details: Sonic is the fastest character to use because of his boost and drift, but cannot take as many shortcuts as other characters can. The lightdash and slide are used to get in most of Sonic's shortcuts/alternate routes. Sonic's stomp is an attack like it was in Unleashed/Colours/Generations Modern, and behaves exactly the same, and same goes for his quickstep. Sonic is also the only character to have their short jump as an attack. Unlike the others, he curls up into a spinball for that brief second and uncurls to land. Does it extremely fast since the hop has little airtime

Tails's Moveset

A in air/Energy Gauge move: Flight: Hold A to go up, let it go to go down like in SA. Can hover straight up and move however he wants in flight. He can fly for about 4.5 seconds (before his gauge runs out) and can can reach about 1.5 times the height he could reach in Sonic Adventure. Gauge does not consume when he is descending, but it does not recharge either(only consumes when ascending). Recharges instantly when Tails lands on the ground. He moves the same speed and accelerates/turns at the same rate while flying and running. Also, his spinning tails can hurt enemies directly above him

X on ground: Tail Spin: Like in SA, he spins his tails to attack.

X in air: Tail Tornado: Tails creates a mini tornado directly under himself by spinning his tails under him, to defeat enemies. Good for use in slower platforming sections, since it cuts your speed to a jog speed if you are going faster than this when you activate it.

Y on ground: Arm cannon: Tails shoots his arm cannon like in Sonic Battle: Can be used to get out of reach items without taking time to fly over there, but only stuns enemies. Uses a lock on targeting system(you hold the button to lock on, and then release to fire). No matter how fast you are going when you try to do this, it caps his speed at a jog while he is locking on/firing.

Y in air: Arm Cannon: Same as on the ground, except Tails hovers momentarily to fire the cannon.

Details: With his flight ability, Tails is the character best suited for exploration and finding shortcuts, However he is the least adept at combat, having only 2 moves to dispatch enemies(Tail Spin, Tail Tornado), 1 of which keeps all your momentum(Tail Spin). His quickstep (along with Knuckle's) does not move as fast as Sonic's or Shadow's, and is not an attack. His stomp consists of him spinning his tails and propelling himself downward in a pose like his down trick in Advance 2/3. It is not an attack and does not move as fast as Sonic's, Shadow's or Knuckle's.

Knuckles's Moveset

A in air: Glide/Climb:Pretty much behaves the same it did in all the 3d games that had it. Drops slightly, can stick to walls, etc etc etc. It moves at Knuckle's standard running speed.It also accelerates to max speed twice as fast as Knuckles would while running. Climbing behaves like it did in SA-SA2(being able to dig on walls), but with one small exception: You can press and hold A on a wall to climb at twice the speed.

X on ground: Punch combo: Knuckles does (a left, right, and then a spin punch) up to three punches, depending on how many times you press the button(like most 3d Sonic games he's been in). He can do them at any speed, and they do not break his run

X in air/on wall: Hammer Dive/Dig: Behaves mostly like it did in SA2, but the change is it goes an angle if you are moving. How much of an angle it goes on is dependent on how fast you are going, ranging from a 45 degree angle at full speed to 90 degrees; straight down; while not moving at all. if he does it on a compatible surface (dirt, mud, etc etc) he will dig into the ground and pop out, ala SA2-SA. He can also do this on walls ala SA2. This can be used to access power-ups and shortcuts.

B in air: Air punch: Knuckles does a punch in the air. Can be used to open shortcuts while airborne.

Either LT or RT/Energy gauge move: Emerald power:

Knuckles remotely harnesses some of the master emerald's power for added attack power! (essentially a rage mode). It looks something like this:to 4:56 in the video), During this mode, Knuckles can run a little faster than he does normally and automatically punches and kills any enemy he comes to. Lasts about 10 seconds and his gauge takes roughly 45 seconds to charge (you can only use it when your gauge is full)

Details: Can access a lot of shortcuts with his punching ability/digging ability that no-one else can, and can also reach some of the high routes with his gliding/climbing ability.He is the strongest character because of his ability to punch through any breakable object. His stomp consists of him punching the ground animation (minus teammates) ala Sonic Heroes. When he does this, he will create a shockwave that destroys anything in the immediate area.

Shadow`s Moveset

A In air: Homing Attack: The only move he shares with Sonic (without any changes), so therefore, see Sonic`s moveset for details.

X on ground/in air: Chaos Spear/Chaos Spear Barrage: While standing or moving at any speed, he can throw a chaos spear at his enemies. Tap the button to throw one, and it will home in on the closest enemy. Hold the button, and Shadow will charge up the chaos spear. After fully charging, Shadow can hit up to 5 enemies at once. While charging, targeting reticules will start appearing. How many you can hit at once depends on how long you charge it, taking 3 seconds to a full charge. Be careful with charging it though, as it leaves Shadow unable to turn or dodge, and there is no cancel button.......

B on ground: Slide: Works the same as Sonic's, but Shadow does not have the roll. Stays sliding as long as you hold the button.

B in air: Chaos control: Shadow does a teleport-chaos control ala Shadow The Hedgehog(intro). Works like a homing attack(has a different colored reticule),but with a lot more vertical(can reach a little more than half the height of Tail's flight) and horizontal(three times the horizontal range of a normal homing attack) range. However, it can only be done once(not once per level,once per jump/time in the air) and cannot be chained(although it can be used ONCE in a chain of homing attacks). Can be used to get to out of reach enemies and switches, which opens up potential to open up shortcuts/alternate routes.

Y on ground/Energy Gauge move: Chaos Dash Lvl 1/2/3: Tap the button for a short dash(lasts a millisecond, nowhere near as fast as Sonic's boost)that kills any enemies in the way , but hold the button and he'll start charging chaos energy! Charge for two second and he'll do Chaos Control like his B-air move, but this time automatically chains it with up to 5 enemies. Charge all the way up to full in 4 seconds however, and he will disappear, then you will see a lot of afterimages dash through up to ten enemies and they will all explode. Shadow will then reappear just behind the last enemy he dashed through. If you start charging it while running, Shadow will charge it while skidding to a stop. He will take 2 seconds to stop while charging. Gauge takes 5 seconds to recharge after lvl 1, 10 after lvl 2, and 20 after lvl 3(you can only use it when it's full). If you use the short dash at a fast enough speed where the dash takes you to Sonic's boost speed(the way it works is that is increases your speed a set amount from the amount you are already going), he goes into a boost mode as fast as Sonic's boost(it does nothing to enemies)! It lasts the same time as Sonic's boost, and the gauge takes 20 seconds to charge after this, because the boost mode completely depletes it. If you want to come out of it beforehand, just tap the Y button. This makes it more limited because 1: There is not as many dashpads as there is in Unleashed style games and 2: there are few dashpads that propel you fast enough.

Details: Shadow is the second fastest character in the game, next to Sonic. He is the best at combat(although not the strongest), and his quickstep and stomp are the same as Sonic's (although his stomp makes a small shock wave, unlike Sonic's due to his rocket shoes. It can never get anywhere as big as the shock wave Knuckles makes though).

Level design would obviously be bigger and have a lot more alternate routes than the Unleashed trilogy(Unleashed, Colors and Generations Modern) ever did. There routes would not be just shortcuts to take for a second just to get back to the main path, but alternate routes in their own right(although they would all end at the goal ring) Some would take you though the entire level. I figure this is possible because since you will not be holding boost all the time, the level's do not have to be quite as long.

Please give me feedback on how to improve this idea, I would really appreciate it!

Edited August 5, 2011 by Chaos Warp

[Skull Leader]

How I would handle multiple characters?

Well, I'm just going to cover the 2-D genre since it's the one that does not exclude characters like the 3-D Unleashed style does, so here's my take:

Sonic: he keeps his abilities from the genesis era (along with the elemental shields to make things interesting as well as adding a bit of strategy) as well as implementing moves from the modern games that actually add to the gameplay like the wall jump, air dash and the stomp instead of the ones that dumb down the gameplay (such as the homming attack and the boost). Also he would be the only guy to grind on rails.

Amy: pretty much the same from the first advance game. Her abilities would be piko-hammer based: the hammer whirl would allow for high precision platforming by cancelling the forward momentum in mid-air, her melee and air melee attacks would still have the best attack range), the giant steps would allow her to take on slopes the other characters can't. Her suicide head slide would neutralize the spindash from bosses who copy Sonic skills, the hammer jump would allow her to reach higher platforms as well as gaining more speed by jumping out of loops/downward slopes. To balance all of this she would still be unable to curl and spindash as well as a slow acceleration. As for gimmicks she would be the only girl to grind on raisl.

Big: He would be the character with the slowest acceleration, however he also would be the only one who lacks a speed cap limit. His whole gameplay would be based on the fishing rod as a mean to gain speed via rubber-band physics, which not only would allow him to gain insane speeds, leaving a trail of destruction behind him, but also like Amy did, would be a different take on platforming. Playing with him will cause you to grow manly chest hair.

Shadow: Instead of making him a copy-pastas of Sonic, I think that the main gameplay mechanic for him should be based on the use of his Gundam rocket shoes. And idea would be to use a button to accelerate, but being more based on timing to get the best speed instead of keeping it pushed all the way (like Unleashed). As for his attacks they would be ranged and would increase power depending on how many chaos emeralds you collect.

Tails: He would still play the same, but to make things more interesting and balanced, spindashing will only serve to gain speed, not the offensive capabilities (after all, he is covered with fluffy fur, not sharp quills XP)

Rouge: Her main skill would be flying (yay another flight type), however unlike Tails and Knuckles her mechanic would require more input from the player to keep her airborne. Basically think of how it was handled in Super Mario World, where you could increase your height with the right timing or dive in (in this case it would serve to gain speed), Also similar to Knuckles she would be able to climb up walls, however unlike him she would also be able to hang on ceilings. Also no curling/spindash. She needs to have her own identity (plus it makes no sense for a bat to do those)

[HUNTER297]

If you were the developer at Sonic Team and got forced to have multiple characters, how would you design them?

I would make all characters as fast as Sonic but each character has an unique ability. (I said this in the "Status Quo thread)

Option 1: (Character name and unique ability)

• Sonic: Boost
  
• Shadow: Chaos Powers
  
• Silver: ESP powers like in 06
  
  
  Option 2:
  • Sonic: Boost
    
  • Shadow: Chaos Powers
    
  • Silver: ESP powers
    
  • Blaze: Fire
    

  I left out Tails and Knuckles because I don't like them.

  I really like option 2. But I think we should add Tails and Knuckles to list with their abilities.

  I dont know why people want Amy to be playable. She isnt fast and her only special is her hammer. She is more of a story character. And people now say that Shadow is Sonic clone. Well just give boost to Sonic and Blaze (tho Blaze's boost will be alot slower) while rest wont use boost. While Blaze and Sonic gameplay will focus on speed, Tails and Knuckles on platforming and Shadow and Silver on fighting enemies. Note that everyone will have all of it (platforming, speed and fignt) but some characters levels will focus on one aspect.

  Please tell me what do you think of my idea and how I can improve it.

  Edit: Got some ideas.

  Fight characters (Shadow and Silver) will have special gauge. They can use special gauge to use alot kinds f chaos/psychokinesis powers. They can achieve the same speed as Sonic (when he dont boost). They both will have overdrive ability. In Shadow case it will ge named chaos boost and in Silver case psychokinetic overdrive. In that mode their gauges wont deplete when they will use their powers (powers will be very powerfull) and they would achieve more speed but still not as fast as boosting Sonic. When in overdive their special gauge will slowly deplete (aprox. Of full gauge time will be 1 minute.) After gauge deplete they will be slower than usual and their powers will be weaker.

  They will only be able to use weakest abilities (homing attack etc.) the gauge will refil after 1 minute 30 seconds. After that they will come back to normal. (Note that wothout overdrive the gauge refils itself bery quickly) their levels consist of full 3D gameplay with platforming and speed but majority of enemy fighting.

  Speed chars. (Sonic, Blaze) would havd ability to boost. While Sonic will be faster Blaze will jump higher and spend most time in air while Sonic will slide and homing attack enemies on the ground. Their levels would be basicaly Unleashed/Gen 2.5D/3D formula with speed platforming and some fighting sections.

  Platforming chars. (Tails and Knuckles) will have flight gauge. Those chars. Will have least speed sections but some fighting. Their gameplay will be more Adventure like) I really dont know what to say more about it.

Edited August 3, 2011 by HUNTER297

[thedarkknight]

I really like option 2. But I think we should add Tails and Knuckles to list with their abilities.

I dont know why people want Amy to be playable. She isnt fast and her only special is her hammer. She is more of a story character. And people now say that Shadow is Sonic clone. Well just give boost to Sonic and Blaze (tho Blaze's boost will be alot slower) while rest wont use boost. While Blaze and Sonic gameplay will focus on speed, Tails and Knuckles on platforming and Shadow and Silver on fighting enemies. Note that everyone will have all of it (platforming, speed and fignt) but some characters levels will focus on one aspect.

Please tell me what do you think of my idea and how I can improve it.

I like your idea! Especially the speed, platforming and fight elemts, it's really cool.

[HUNTER297]

I like your idea! Especially the speed, platforming and fight elemts, it's really cool.

Thanks I added some ideas.

[Gamenerd]

I think it'd also be interesting if they brought Espio back with a more literal translation of how he played in Knuckles Chaotix - that is to say, he'd have a spinjump like Blaze's instead of a ball-jump like everybody else, and he'd have a complete lack of regard for the laws of gravity, being able to stick to walls and ceilings easily without any speed behind him.

Or heck maybe Sonic 4's physics were the spiritual successor to Espio's sticky feet mechanic from Chaotix.

I kid, I kid.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Gamenerd

[Kuzu]

I really like option 2. But I think we should add Tails and Knuckles to list with their abilities.

I dont know why people want Amy to be playable. She isnt fast and her only special is her hammer. She is more of a story character. And people now say that Shadow is Sonic clone. Well just give boost to Sonic and Blaze (tho Blaze's boost will be alot slower) while rest wont use boost. While Blaze and Sonic gameplay will focus on speed, Tails and Knuckles on platforming and Shadow and Silver on fighting enemies. Note that everyone will have all of it (platforming, speed and fignt) but some characters levels will focus on one aspect.

Because she's different, I like different, she's NOT just a story character either, otherwise she would've never been playable to begin with.

[HUNTER297]

Because she's different, I like different, she's NOT just a story character either, otherwise she would've never been playable to begin with.

Well if people like "different" then why were they bashing alternative gameplay in the first place.