So SatBK was released recently.

[SuperLink]

So noone likes Knuckles' past in Adventure or Chronicles, or the idea of Gizoids? I thought those were great for Sonic story. Personally I agree with Ryan, there's nothing wrong with the story, especially since so many people loved the cartoons, and the game stories are just as twee, aren't they? So what's the problem?

[SaffronRH]

MERLINA'S THE MAIN BAD GIRL!(not guy lol

)

YES! I've been waiting for them to put in a main bad girl, not just some thief or someone who can't do anything really evil! Pwnage...

Okay, now I want this game. o_o; XD

It'll have to wait though quite awhile... My money is split between Sonic Universe Comics, and music right now. >.>; I'll have to just watch the youtube cutscenes for now...

What's with Jet randomly being in there though? I don't know if he's just a 2 player character or what, but for some reason, it's kinda odd to see him on the list of characters...

So noone likes Knuckles' past in Adventure or Chronicles, or the idea of Gizoids? I thought those were great for Sonic story. Personally I agree with Ryan, there's nothing wrong with the story, especially since so many people loved the cartoons, and the game stories are just as twee, aren't they? So what's the problem?

I don't have a problem. Personally, I love the history Sega has given him, and I'm glad he had a big role in Chronicles. Makes me happy... Though it would be nice if Tails had a bigger role in games, seeing that he is Sonic's best friend... I think the best role he's had recently was also in Chronicles.

I think the Cartoon-styled cutscenes are beautiful. They're especially nice, cause they'll help me master drawing Blaze*cough* I mean, Percival.

Anyway, I think they're great. All the fancy 3D stuff is kinda overdone... it's nice to see 2D style cutscenes once in awhile.

Edited March 5, 2009 by SaffronRH

[SuperLink]

Especially since I hate his guts and never expected him to be outside of a Sonic Riders game, even if he was gonna be in Mario & Sonic or something (at least he wasn't). So yeah, I'm not taking this inclusion as a good sign at all.

Are Jet and Silver the only bonus characters then? (I guess they're only for multiplayer mode?)

[SaffronRH]

Especially since I hate his guts and never expected him to be outside of a Sonic Riders game, even if he was gonna be in Mario & Sonic or something (at least he wasn't). So yeah, I'm not taking this inclusion as a good sign at all.

Are Jet and Silver the only bonus characters then? (I guess they're only for multiplayer mode?)

I didn't really expect that either. I would have rather them include someone else... but with all the Characters Sega has made, it's amazing that I can't really think of anyone else who could replace him... Percival is supposed to be the only girl, thus the only guys left are Storm, Big, and Jet, and the Characters Sega has decided to bury... Unless you want to use a robot. (GO GEMERL! *shot*)

Mighty would have been a good pick.

Edited March 5, 2009 by SaffronRH

[SuperLink]

They buried Gemerl too it seems. Sonic Advance 3 really seems to have been forgotten, it's a shame.

This may have been a good enough time to bring back Fang you know! But nooo, had to use Jet instead.

[Gabz Girl]

I thought there were gonna be loads of characters for 2 player. You only get Jet and Silver as bonuses...? O__o Ah hell..

If anyone has a picture of Jet in er..armour and stuff, I'd love to see it. Thanks. =)

[Phos]

In that case, let's throw out the Genesis games as well, and really start from the beginning.

If you're going to do that, why bother making it a Sonic game?

So we should drop the homing attack, ring dash, light attack, grinding and other great movesets? Along with years and years of plot and character development?

Years of Character derailment. And when has any of this development you speak of ever occurred? They're all acting the exact same as they were in SA1. And those moves are terrible. I'm assuming you mean light dash. The light dash boils down to "remember that you need to press the button at point X/Y/Z" (at best!). The homing attack is one of numerous other moves that interferes with pinball physics (aka, the point). Thanks to these moves, newer games play more like some kind of SatAM adaptation.

Great, I'm up for any ideas you have.

Among what I've said in this thread, and what I posed in that thread about fixing the franchise, I've detailed what I'd do as much as I can with words, and I'd need to make some mock ups to show you with any more detail how the game should play and how the levels should be set up. Regardless, the "Sonic Science" website has pretty much the same views I do (coincidentally, I might add), so me typing it up would be largely redundant. If you're going to respond to this bit (anyone, not just Indigo), I'm going to expect you to have read the whole site. Looking for it now, I can't seem to find it, was it on the same server as TSS?

SatBK's story is painfully bad.

Sonic is the real King Aurthur, which I find hilarious because they treat "Arthur" like it's a title rather than a name. I also find the idea of Sonic being the Once and Future King to be absurd.

[SuperLink]

It's just not gonna happen, not ever. Sonic has been the "new gen" Sonic for longer than he was the "classic" Sonic by now. Fan games are all well and good, or maybe look for another series built on what you wanted to see, but for now it may just be a better idea at least trying to appreciate Sonic for what he is, because I'm doubting he'll ever go back.

[123654]

If you're going to do that, why bother making it a Sonic game?

Years of Character derailment. And when has any of this development you speak of ever occurred? They're all acting the exact same as they were in SA1. And those moves are terrible. I'm assuming you mean light dash. The light dash boils down to "remember that you need to press the button at point X/Y/Z" (at best!). The homing attack is one of numerous other moves that interferes with pinball physics (aka, the point). Thanks to these moves, newer games play more like some kind of SatAM adaptation.

Among what I've said in this thread, and what I posed in that thread about fixing the franchise, I've detailed what I'd do as much as I can with words, and I'd need to make some mock ups to show you with any more detail how the game should play and how the levels should be set up. Regardless, the "Sonic Science" website has pretty much the same views I do (coincidentally, I might add), so me typing it up would be largely redundant. If you're going to respond to this bit (anyone, not just Indigo), I'm going to expect you to have read the whole site. Looking for it now, I can't seem to find it, was it on the same server as TSS?

SatBK's story is painfully bad.

Sonic is the real King Aurthur, which I find hilarious because they treat "Arthur" like it's a title rather than a name. I also find the idea of Sonic being the Once and Future King to be absurd.

I'm starting to think you're ROCKS_21, from GameFAQs.

[Phos]

No, but he's a cool guy, from what I know. He was watching the stream as well.

[SaffronRH]

I thought there were gonna be loads of characters for 2 player. You only get Jet and Silver as bonuses...? O__o Ah hell..

If anyone has a picture of Jet in er..armour and stuff, I'd love to see it. Thanks. =)

It's just the profile picture from the American game site, but here:

[123654]

No, but he's a cool guy, from what I know. He was watching the stream as well.

I don't know whether to like him or hate him. On one hand he's great at debates and makes really good points. On the other, he's just so.... fjdfohbn9udybgfmsdkhffdgfyugvdhfbfhghuyguyr!!!!

Yeah...

EDIT: No huge spoilers, but are Silver and Jet in the story at all?

Edited March 5, 2009 by AXB

[YoshiUnity]

I don't know whether to like him or hate him. On one hand he's great at debates and makes really good points. On the other, he's just so.... fjdfohbn9udybgfmsdkhffdgfyugvdhfbfhghuyguyr!!!!

Yeah...

EDIT: No huge spoilers, but are Silver and Jet in the story at all?

Nope. I just beat the story and I haven't unlocked them yet. I guess their optional characters.

[Ryan Brown]

I don't know whether to like him or hate him. On one hand he's great at debates and makes really good points. On the other, he's just so.... fjdfohbn9udybgfmsdkhffdgfyugvdhfbfhghuyguyr!!!!

Yeah...

So, he's a royal prick, then?

[123654]

So, he's a royal prick, then?

Well, it's just that he sees some subjective things as objective. He's not terrible once you know him a little better, but still, it can be annoying debating with him because he never loses.

He's said SA2 isn't a Sonic game, in fact.

[Ryan Brown]

Hmph. Sounds like the kind of guy I'd beat to a bloody pulp within 5 seconds of speaking to him. People who arrogantly state their opinion as fact piss me off to no end and need to be put into traction (YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WHO YOU ARE).

[SuperLink]

I wonder if I could beat him in a debate/argument (I do love those...) Although to be honest I've been ranting to Sonic purists all week so I'm a bit tired of it for now.

EDIT: Nice sig Ryan, seems like a good way to remind 'em =p

Edited March 5, 2009 by SuperLink

[Ryan Brown]

I wonder if I could beat him in a debate/argument (I do love those...) Although to be honest I've been ranting to Sonic purists all week so I'm a bit tired of it for now.

Save yourself the headache and don't even bother. It won't help matters.

[Diogenes]

If you're going to do that, why bother making it a Sonic game?

Because Sonic is still good, it's just that all these games have added nothing to it.

Honestly, all this oldschool fanboy bullshit is as bad for the series as people defending '06/SatBK/insert-hated-game-of-your-choice-here. Good ideas post-S3&K may be few and far between, but they aren't nonexistent. And it perpetuates an attitude that the Genesis games are untouchable perfections, that the only good Sonic game is one that works within their limitations, which just leads to stagnation.

I'm only half-joking about starting from the real beginning rather than S3&K. I wouldn't throw out the genesis games, but I wouldn't throw out the ones past them either. The problem I see is that a lot of people are looking for Sonic 4 rather than a good Sonic game; they get too caught up in stupid little things that just trigger nostalgia. I think you're better off backing up and looking at everything, taking what works, and making something new, than just going with "S3&K was good and everything else sucked so I'll make Sonic 4".

[SuperLink]

I think the thing a lot of people don't realise with the whole Sonic 4 thing is that it's the same developers who've been "messing up" all these years. Maybe S1-3&K were luck? Maybe they've just lost it. I honestly don't see Sonic 4 being leaps and bounds ahead of Sonic Advance (great forgotten little series that) like everything thinks it'd be.

[Ryan Brown]

Because Sonic is still good, it's just that all these games have added nothing to it.

Honestly, all this oldschool fanboy bullshit is as bad for the series as people defending '06/SatBK/insert-hated-game-of-your-choice-here. Good ideas post-S3&K may be few and far between, but they aren't nonexistent. And it perpetuates an attitude that the Genesis games are untouchable perfections, that the only good Sonic game is one that works within their limitations, which just leads to stagnation.

I'm only half-joking about starting from the real beginning rather than S3&K. I wouldn't throw out the genesis games, but I wouldn't throw out the ones past them either. The problem I see is that a lot of people are looking for Sonic 4 rather than a good Sonic game; they get too caught up in stupid little things that just trigger nostalgia. I think you're better off backing up and looking at everything, taking what works, and making something new, than just going with "S3&K was good and everything else sucked so I'll make Sonic 4".

THANK YOU, DIO. You've just earned my respect.

This is exactly what I've been saying for a long time. There's plenty of potential here, it just needs to be looked at, delved into, explored and used. Try that, and you've got a winner.

[123654]

Because Sonic is still good, it's just that all these games have added nothing to it.

Honestly, all this oldschool fanboy bullshit is as bad for the series as people defending '06/SatBK/insert-hated-game-of-your-choice-here. Good ideas post-S3&K may be few and far between, but they aren't nonexistent. And it perpetuates an attitude that the Genesis games are untouchable perfections, that the only good Sonic game is one that works within their limitations, which just leads to stagnation.

I'm only half-joking about starting from the real beginning rather than S3&K. I wouldn't throw out the genesis games, but I wouldn't throw out the ones past them either. The problem I see is that a lot of people are looking for Sonic 4 rather than a good Sonic game; they get too caught up in stupid little things that just trigger nostalgia. I think you're better off backing up and looking at everything, taking what works, and making something new, than just going with "S3&K was good and everything else sucked so I'll make Sonic 4".

And some people don't even care if a game is good, only that it's consistent with previous games. So many times on GameFAQs, when I say that being fun and well-made is all that matters, the most common response is "So you don't really care if it's a Sonic game or not?"

[Dr. Mechano]

I think the thing a lot of people don't realise with the whole Sonic 4 thing is that it's the same developers who've been "messing up" all these years. Maybe S1-3&K were luck? Maybe they've just lost it. I honestly don't see Sonic 4 being leaps and bounds ahead of Sonic Advance (great forgotten little series that) like everything thinks it'd be.

No, not really. Most of the developers who worked on the series during that time are long gone now.

I don't even think a game that purely emulates the classic feel is possible anymore, because those designers are mostly gone. I like the Unleashed team a lot in terms of writing though- They kept the cast small, the dialog fresh, and the tone lighthearted. I say stay the course, but add a little more Eggman.

[Doctor MK]

Quick question for those who have the game - are the Knights of the Round Table (Shadow/Knuckles/Blaze) playable in every level once unlocked?

I've heard rumour that you can only play as them in 3 levels? Is this true?

Anyways, despite the bad reviews, I'm still excited about this. Can't wait to pick it up next Friday when it hits the UK shores!

[Indigo Rush]

If you're going to do that, why bother making it a Sonic game?

You know, he's probably insulting you, but don't take my word for it.

Years of Character derailment. And when has any of this development you speak of ever occurred? They're all acting the exact same as they were in SA1.

Tails is certainly more mature than he used to be.

Amy has definitely become more independent over the years.

Eggman is more fleshed out than ever.

The only characters that have yet to change are those who are new, aside from Shadow, who has had quite a lot of development, put you probably hate him.

And those moves are terrible. I'm assuming you mean light dash. The light dash boils down to "remember that you need to press the button at point X/Y/Z" (at best!).

I call it the ring dash out of personal preference. Point is, you knew what I was talking about. Also, moves like that flesh out the gameplay and make it more involved, without taking away too much of the simplicity.

The homing attack is one of numerous other moves that interferes with pinball physics (aka, the point).

Who says there can't be both? The site that you say you've read so much even says it should be kept.

Thanks to these moves, newer games play more like some kind of SatAM adaptation.

This would be funnier if that wasn't Sonic Spinball. Don't blame the SA era moves for being deviated from in Unleashed, where even the homing attack is changed into an air dash. I don't disagree that Unleashed was imperfect, but now it's starting to boil down to nitpicking and biased opinion.

Among what I've said in this thread, and what I posed in that thread about fixing the franchise, I've detailed what I'd do as much as I can with words, and I'd need to make some mock ups to show you with any more detail how the game should play and how the levels should be set up. Regardless, the "Sonic Science" website has pretty much the same views I do (coincidentally, I might add), so me typing it up would be largely redundant. If you're going to respond to this bit (anyone, not just Indigo), I'm going to expect you to have read the whole site. Looking for it now, I can't seem to find it, was it on the same server as TSS?

I've read that site. Inside and out. It's nice, really it is. But answer me this.

You may want all of this.

But what do the young generation of videogamers want? They don't care what Sonic used to be as a game, what they care about is a blue hedgehog that runs fast. Sort of like me, until I became knee-deep in this community. IGN can want Sonic 4 all they want, you can want Sonic 4, the point is, Sega won't ever give this to you unless the majority of their market wants it. It's not just Sonic Science anymore, Phos, it's not just fan demand, it's marketing. Kids who don't give a Flicky's over what Sonic is will play if the game is good. It may suck at being a Sonic game, but if it's a game that sells, Sega won't bother going back to what captivates us over a decade ago over what captivates them now.

It's a shame, really. The pinball physics were good. I liked them. But I'm willing to move forward with the new generation. You can stay there on Sonic Retro working on Sonic 4 all you want, you'll probably do a better job making Sonic 4 then Sonic Team. In fact, I'll be one of the first to download it. I honestly can't wait. Just enjoy that while a majority of the fans play the newer Sonic games and evolve in taste, as opposed to those who want to stay in their early 90s wonderland.

SatBK's story is painfully bad.

Sonic is the real King Aurthur, which I find hilarious because they treat "Arthur" like it's a title rather than a name. I also find the idea of Sonic being the Once and Future King to be absurd.

No denying that. But still, many others liked it, and that's their opinion.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Indigo Rush