The Perfect Sonic Game

[Dragosaur]

Some people didn't like Sonic Chronicles. A lot of people didn't like Sonic Heroes. But now, you don't have to rely on SEGA to try and make a game that would appeal to you. If you had the opportunity, how would you design the next Sonic game? Would it be a continuity from a previous game or is Sonic going on a new adventure? Who would join him on his quest? What game modes would be available? Who would appear as the heroes and villains of the game? What will be the "special feature" that makes the game stand out from previous Sonic games? Let your imagination slip on its running shoes and take off down a steep hill.

[Tori Himemiya]

This is bound to be moved over there so a little heads up. lol

Anywho my dream did happen. I always wanted Sonic to use a sword (this was when I was a Final Fantasy fan) and hack up robots. And they delivered. I hyped it but... It was rather easy and Blaze is transgendering. :/ So Sega failed me. >.<

I think I'll wait to see how the Sonic 4 era goes first before asking again.

[Flyboy Fox]

Rather than saying "this will be moved", how about actually reporting it so that a mod sees it and moves it, eh?

Moved.

[Diogenes]

I don't believe there is a "perfect" Sonic game, and I think that way of thinking is responsible for some of the problems with this fanbase.

That said.

For 2D, I'd like to see them take the basic gameplay of the Rushes, scale it up to a console game, tone down the boost a bit, bring in some more platforming elements and gimmicks, give Sonic a walljump and maybe a stomp, and add in a bunch of other characters handled like Tails and Knuckles in S3&K. Add a solid but not overbearing story, a good number of levels (ideally with some less commonly used themes; I really don't need to see another GHZ knockoff), and a fair amount of fanservice, and you've got a damn good game.

For 3D...well, I don't have a fully formed idea like I do for 2D, but compared to the games they've made so far, they really need to let Sonic run on everything. We've generally been limited to the floor and the few other surfaces they've specifically intended for us to run on, and that just isn't proper Sonic gameplay. We need an engine that allows us to run on walls and the occasional ceiling freely, controllably, with predictable physics, and without bugs. And he needs some more abilities to make it work; I don't think we could get away with just a jump button and a roll button, not if the game is going to be anything more than one of those 3D marble games.

[azoo]

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=19202

There ya go. There's mine.

[Mick]

The perfect Sonic game to me would be simple. It needs to be super fast that it knock me into next week after I'm done playing it. Tails should be in there as well. I want the game to have a skateboarding mode, a hockey mode, a baseball mode... OK I'm not done yet and a fighting mode, a puzzle mode and a first person shooter mode! Oh baby, that would be super sick and sweet. I wanna play the skateboarding mode and first person shooter mode the most. I wanna shred as Tails on a skateboard. I ain't talkin' about Sonic Riders. Sonic Riders was cool with the hoverboards, but how about skateboarding?

Oh yes Big the Cat must be in the game too. He would totally rip you a part in the fighting mode. Shadow needs to be in there for the first person shooter mode. Oh yes, I hope you game developers out there are taking down notes on this. I want this Sonic game to become a reality. Oh and ya know who should be in the game too? Fang! Bring back Fang! He was uber bad ass and he's probably my favorite not-so-used unpopular obscure character from the Sonic series.

What else do I want in my Sonic game? I want Nintendo characters in it as well. Oh man oh man, I would like to shoot them down in the FPS mode or play as Tails and tailwhip the beejesus out of Luigi. Wow this game would be just utterly insane and I don't think anyone would play it, but me.

[eXtaticus]

The perfect Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 2, so common sense and logic says that if SEGA produce a sequel and build upon all the best bits, alter a few key elements and chop/ change some of the more annoying gameplay styles, they should end up making a good game, right?

Oh, bugger it...

Edited February 25, 2010 by Extaticus

[Derg]

Although my favorite game in the series is S3&K, I don't think there can be a "perfect" game, let alone a "perfect Sonic game." In a video game franchise, it has to stay near it's roots(Sonic1), while also finding ways to differentiate itself from past titles(Sonic2+3). In a specific series, past games and future games should remain similar in game play and design, but evolution in style/game ideas grow as the series go on. If a series were to adapt to a new genre or dimension(Sonic Chronicles/Sonic Adventure), it should try to remember what made it unique in it's former genre/dimension, and configure those ideas in the new genre/dimension. Certain series in the same genre can be similar(Sonic Rush and the "Classic Sonics"), but the name of a game lets people know what kind of specific kind of play style, and that people should not expect the same exact kind of game play when comparing the games. A video game should also be good in technical quality, while also having good game design ideas, and when certain ideas are either good or bad, the developer should try to improve in their design of trying to primarily eliminating the bad ideas(basically what any game in a series or not should strive for).

I'm disappointed in Sonic4 because I think it takes it's homages too far, and doesn't really seem like a continuation of the "classic" series, but just takes ideas from them in a unfamiliar physics engine(that's all I'll say, since I agree that it's kind of been getting annoying). Most Sonic games seem to be good or great in ideas, but lack the proper execution, which is really depressing. I think that game play should be the most important aspect, and that art/story/etc should help build on that, but if the game is bad, the look of the game won't matter and they seem wasted(not to say that all additions are good, they should just be kept in moderation). I don't really care about small "aesthetic features" in certain games(o_o , even though I prefer "classic" Sonic), all I'm looking for is great quality and consistency in games/series.

[JezMM]

I admit I have no problem with Adventure style multiple playtypes, to the point that my dream game would feature an all-star Sonic cast.

Sonic - Basically Unleased Day gameplay.

Tails - An evolved form of SA1. Use flying to beat stages quickly and find shortcuts or complete tailored obstacle courses.

Knuckles - Emerald hunting with more focus on puzzles. The emeralds would still be random, but would include a very basic crazy taxi style arrow to point you in the general direction. The levels would be filled with Zelda style puzzles which again, would have their layouts randomised to keep you on your toes.

Amy - Similar to SA1, but not quite as slow. Similar pace to general Sonic gameplay in 2006.

Cream - Essentially, Sonic 3D in (get this) 3D. Search the levels for Lost Chao.

Shadow - Same as Sonic, but slightly slower with guns, vehicles and chaos powers. No 2D gameplay.

Rouge - Similar controls to SA2, but her levels are linear with stealth-based puzzles and combat.

Omega - Basically, Werehog gameplay from Unleashed but more robotty.

Silver - Similar to 2006, but levels are less linear and more flexible. Psychic powers are more than just a basic gravity gun and context sensitive pads.

Blaze - Reskin of Sonic controls rather than her own moveset - but provides 100% 2D perspective action gameplay.

Big - Fishing and basic puzzley gameplay. Think every level to be like Hot Shelter. Most fishing completely optional, with few mandatory moments of difficulty (and even then they would only use the basics).

GUN Commander - On-rails shooter gameplay. Very few levels, just a bonus.

Team Chaotix - Much more refined Heroes style gameplay, complete with explorable and puzzley missions.

Dr. Eggman - Fly around in, and collect parts for to customise, the Egg Mobile. Mixture of puzzle gameplay and E-102 style shooting.

Like SA and 2006, characters would share levels, but each character has at least ONE level specifically made for their gameplay (as in a completely original map, not a re-arrange). Sonic would take up the majority of the game, with (out of fairness to their popularity), Knuckles, Shadow and Dr. Eggman having plenty of levels each, Tails, Amy, Rouge and Blaze having quite a few, and Cream, Omega, Silver, Big, GUN Commander and Team Chaotix only having a few.

In my head the dream game would mix and match the characters through one huge single player story mode (with Sonic levels alternating between other levels - you would never play as a secondary character twice in a row like in Unleashed or SA2), OR, perhaps have Sonic's story split into multiple chapters, with the shorter secondary character stories inbetween.

Totally ridiculous amount of content, but hey this is a dream game.

For a more realistic request - a game based off the Sonic movie. I imagined this. Stages would be:

01- South Island Zone- Race to save Tails

02- Greenlake City Zone- Race to the President's House

BOSS - Badnik Bodyguards

03- Cloud Cruise Zone- Fly to the portal

04- Darkness Portal Zone- Fly down into the land of darkness

05- Shady Mountain Zone- Head to Robotropolis

BOSS - Metal Robotnik (City)

06- Ancient Relic Zone- Escape from Metal Robotnik

BOSS - Metal Robotnik (Highway)

07- Robotropolis Zone- Head to the main control of Robotropolis

08- Chrome Descent Zone- Head down to stop the time bomb

BOSS - Hyper Metal Sonic (Meeting)

09- Glistening Forest Zone- Escape the forest and return to Greenlake

BOSS - Hyper Metal Sonic (Duel)

10- Continent Glacier Zone- Race to save the President from his ship

BOSS - Hyper Metal Sonic (Finale)

11- Freedom Core Zone- Rush to the bottom of the volcano to try and save Metal (super short 30 second long level but majorly intense - something as demanding as the Gaia Collossus in Unleashed for example)

To clarify I am not a purist old fruit that much - I'd be happy to exchange it for Dr. Eggman, Metal Eggman, Metal Sonic III (or something), and Eggmanland etc.

Edited February 26, 2010 by JezMM

[Iceman Etika]

The perfect Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 2, so common sense and logic says that if SEGA produce a sequel and build upon all the best bits, alter a few key elements and chop/ change some of the more annoying gameplay styles, they should end up making a good game, right?

Oh, bugger it...

You good sir are the smartest man on the face of this planet.

Oh wait, it's just common sense. SA2 is considered the best Sonic game for new gen by many people, and it was positively praised by all the reviewers for most of it's aspects. Will SEGA take the hint and make a three soon? Or are they saving it as a trump card perhaps...

[JezMM]

Will SEGA take the hint and make a three soon? Or are they saving it as a trump card perhaps...

Take your pick. At least one of them is Sonic Adventure 3.

Edited February 26, 2010 by JezMM

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

The fact that Sonic Unleashed's Japanese name is Sonic World Adventure kinda gives away that it's meant to be SA3.

[Iceman Etika]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I refuse to believe it! It CAN'T BE! I still have hope for Sonic Adventure Three! I won't just take those! I WILL FIGHT

[azoo]

really, my last post I made was a joke post. I'm really gonna emphasize what I said in the momentum topic.

First off, we take the core classic-styled gameplay and bring it to 3D. You basically take your average platformer, speed up the player some (depends on the character, but they're all at least somewhat faster than Mario), which should allow them to go fast enough to gain enough speed so they could at least run up loops and other landmass deformities. This is the basic bare bones of the gameplay.

However, other than those similarities, the three characters (Sonic, Tails and Knuckles) all play alot different from each other. Let me begin:

Sonic - Sonic is obviously the world's fastest hedgehog, And his gameplay is focused around momentum and keeping the flow as you dart through levels. To support this, Sonic's gameplay brings some of the old AND new to the table. Sonic's signature Spin Attack returns, which allows him to use the "spinball mechanics" of the olden days, and the Spindash returns to boot. Although to enhance the platforming nature of the series, Sonic has new moves in the form of parkour. Sonic can wallrun short distances, wall jump, vault, ledge grab, ledgevault and all kinds of other things to aid him in his progress to keep a fast pace and traverse to higher areas (because you know you've always wanted to play as Sonic like he was in SCD's opening and the OVA).

Tails - Tails has gameplay very similar to SA1's, where he has a tail swipe as his main attack, and of course he can fly. In this gameplay, general platforming and puzzles are the main focus, and feature alot of Tails hijacking Badniks and hacking their systems to where they are controlled by the animals in them, where they are Broniks (lulz). These Broniks come in handy like Kirby's partners from KSS, and help Tails rather often when in a tight spot with a bunch of baddies. Also Tails uses hacking skills to infiltrate bases and detonate bombs and stuff (not Dummy Ring Bombs, thankfully).

Knuckles - think a faster Werehog with gliding and climbing abilities and the ability to walk into walls and bust them thanks to his fists. As you can tell, his gameplay is mostly designed around combat and expiration, as you'll be collecting Master Emerald peices again, but this time in a more linear fashion, where it's a straightfoward stage but it shows some smallish areas all around you must explore (since when you get in distance your radar starts to beep), and when you get it you progress through the level.

Although every character is focused primarily on one specific area (speed and keeping pace for Sonic, combat and exploring for Knuckles, platforming and puzzles for Tails), this doesn't mean that these features are exclusive to one character (although the keeping pace, combat and puzzles things may be). It's just these things are only not as much as in others.

Environments are a middle ground between whimsical and surreal-esque classic worlds and more photorealistic and detailed modern worlds. For example, take the way Sega Superstars Tennis did GHZ and Scrap Brain. They featured they're colorfulness and aesthetic appeal, but they also enforced realer looking machinery, land and foliage.

Each character appears in the exact same levels, it's jus that their layouts are all completely different to be suited for the character in the stage. Maybe one extra stage specifically for each one, but that'd be it.

[Thirsty Pocket]

Balance between speedy gameplay, and Platforming. Some zones lean more toward one than others. Speed is toned down to SA1/S1 pace, unless on a slope. No boost. Levels are actually attatched to the ground, intead of being like F-Zero tracks with even more unfair pitfalls. Difficult, but fair about it. ( there has been NOTHING fair about the difficulty in recent games. Eggman is final boss. Light hearted story until the end. Playable Superform. Chao garden.

And maybe most iffy, but everyone is playable. And I mean everyone. They don't have to be mandatory, They can be DLC, unlockable, they can have it so Sonic is the only one who has cutscenes at all. I just want as many ways to play the game in a different way as possible. Ideally, Eeveryone else is unlocked after beating story mode with Sonic. And while everyone has the same basic gameplay, nobody has identical movesets.

Im not going too into detail because PS3 browsers only allow you to type so much.

[Big The Cat]

The perfect Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 2, so common sense and logic says that if SEGA produce a sequel and build upon all the best bits, alter a few key elements and chop/ change some of the more annoying gameplay styles, they should end up making a good game, right?

Oh, bugger it...

Sonic Adventure 2 was good, but not perfect. I hated the Knuckles/Rogue stages, and I'm sure a lot of others did too.

[Badnik Zero]

It's a concept I've talked about before, probably similar to Azukara's idea of the game. It's bringing rolling and all that stuff people argue about into the 3D games. I'd like it to be an open world with lots of gimmicks in each level, and with lots of hills and platforms to jump and roll. Think half pipes in 3D, like a skating game. Sonic's in a kind of half pipe valley with water running though it. Bridges up above have piranha Badniks leaping over them. Rev up that spin dash and shoot up the gully wall, into the air. Now the bridge is below you and you're on a platform looking around to a level as open looking as the Sonic CD intro. Sonic needs to be an open world game. Miyamoto was right about Mario being fun to just mess around with in Mario 64. It's why so many other platformers copied that design. Banjo-Kazooie shamelessly rips off Mario 64 and everyone enjoys it. The one thing that sets Sonic apart from other colorful platformers is his mobility. Sonic's fast, potentially acrobatic, he rolls like ball. Rolling's important - what other platforming hero can roll like a ball? Let Sonic have his freedom I say. He's been restricted to narrow pathways his whole 3D life. He can only do tricks in certain areas of the level. Why the limitations on what he can do? Give Sonic more room to breathe.

One concept I had was a Sonic only game, on spherical levels where the maps wrap around. This way he'd never have to stop running, and the goal would be at the top of the level so players would platform up there, with "acts" separated by missions so you don't lose that story flow. That's my dream game. Open world.

[Iceman Etika]

Really? 8[ Aww, I actually liked the treasure hunting stuff, I did since Sonic Adventure 1! But I guess that's because I became really used to it, people who were new to the series that I'd invite over to play with me (lol) never wanted to do anything but racing battles... I wonder why.

[azoo]

YoU reminded me of some of my open world-ish stuff I posted, Cupcake. however I found out that Sonic won't always work with 100% open world stuff. Maybe some really open stages, but possibly on tier with Mario 64, except somewhat more objective, where you're main and only point is "get to the end". And in that process, like the classics, you find your route through; using your momentum and whatnot to find higher up/better routes. Although Tails and Knuckles would have much more specific objectives (like hack the motherboard or find the shards), Sonics point will always be "here's point A (which you are at), Eggman put an animal capsule down thataway (point B ), go to point B ASAP".

Edited February 26, 2010 by Azukara

[Badnik Zero]

You reminded me of some of my open world-ish stuff I posted, Cupcake. however I found out that Sonic won't always work with 100% open world stuff. Maybe some really open stages, but possibly on tier with Mario 64, except somewhat more objective, where you're main and only point is "get to the end". And in that process, like the classics, you find your route through; using your momentum and whatnot to find higher up/better routes.

My ideal Sonic wouldn't be as fast as Unleashed, which would make the levels relatively larger. But that's why I was thinking there could be missions. After all if Unleashed was hard to create levels for, this game would be harder. If each world has five or so decent sized missions (with linear progression, act 1, act 2...) Sonic would have a beginning and end to work towards without leaving the play area. Each mission could be in different corners of the level for variety, or the level could change with a story event to make the areas fresh again, up until the boss. Of course narrower SA2 or Unleashed areas could be in there too for variety, but when I think of Sonic in 3D I just think of corridor platformers and not a lot of free space. My philosophy is Sonic physics + more environment = lots of fun.

[azoo]

Which is easily the best philosophy ever.

[Diogenes]

Miyamoto was right about Mario being fun to just mess around with in Mario 64.

Kind of funny, tho', that the Galaxies seem to be moving Mario back towards a more linear design, eh?

I'll definitely agree that 3D Sonic levels need to be more open, but I don't think that full-on open world is the right way to do it. It works for Mario, I think, because changing direction is never really an issue, since you'll only ever need his modest top running speed, which he can reach in a very short distance. Sonic operates on different principles; he generally needs more room to move around, he needs certain structures built into the level to make proper use of his abilities, and trying to change direction does have a significant penalty if you're moving at a good speed. I say keep the overall level structure linear and keep Sonic mostly moving forward along it.

The key is to not just place the path(s) floating in the void. They've got to be inside of something, a bigger path that acts like a safety net, the same way the lowest path in the 2D games was a safety net. The only holes in the net are the ones specifically added as obstacles, a small handful of bottomless pits. Aside from that, the player (and the level designer) is free to play around within the environment, as the net will always be there to catch them.

[azoo]

Sonic's stage don't need to be linear, but they don't need to be exactly super wide either. Because, like already proven, all linearity does is cheapen the gameplay, and the over amount of openness leads to the lack of a sense of direction and goal. Sonic needs a distinct middle.

He needs a lot of routes, sure, but he also needs a direct way to know where the ending is at. Sonic would need different routes stacked vertically and horizontally, but all basically pointing in near the same direction: foward. Sure, I can see exploring little small areas that you could toy around with like you said, Cupcake, but other than that, I just can't see Sonic's whole world as a skatepark. ^^; Now, I could if you're talking a hubworld like Sonic World from Jam, and I could easily see hubworlds for each Zone that feature missions in them that are done in that sandbox. That sounds plausible, but not exactly for real stages.

[Diogenes]

By "linear" I'm not suggesting anything more than what the Genesis games did; start Here, end There, and pretty much every path leads from Here, to There, regardless of what directions it goes to do so.

In that sense I don't think Sonic is, or needs to be, a "middle".

[Badnik Zero]

Kind of funny, tho', that the Galaxies seem to be moving Mario back towards a more linear design, eh?

Yeah I noticed that. Lots of straight objectives, single mission worlds, and planet hopping that doesn't allow for a lot room to run around in. Some star shooter things even send you directly to different parts of the level depending on what mission you select. I think maybe the concept was so great that they didn't need too much exploration. It was a new kind of fun to toss yourself around a center of gravity. But I remember some open worlds. A lot of the fun from Mario 64 came from "How do I get this star?" but 2D Mario can be extremely linear. Some of the linear areas reminded me of SMW and bonus stages like the Star World area.

The key is to not just place the path(s) floating in the void. They've got to be inside of something, a bigger path that acts like a safety net, the same way the lowest path in the 2D games was a safety net. The only holes in the net are the ones specifically added as obstacles, a small handful of bottomless pits. Aside from that, the player (and the level designer) is free to play around within the environment, as the net will always be there to catch them.

I find it funny that it needs to be explicitly stated that there's an option besides the void. I really like this alternative also, if Sonic's going to stick to narrower roads. But besides up and down, it gets complicated if you try to make paths left and right since they don't connect except at the start and end point. None of the net effect you mention. That way's a great method to kill the highway over the void design we've had since Heroes though. But would levels feel claustrophobic, if all these narrow spaces appeared to have ceilings and roads above? I feel like this has a lot to do with backtracking in levels too, which is nearly unheard of in 3D Sonic.