Are we prepared for an era when SEGA reconciles with the game, Shadow the Hedgehog?

[Scritch the Cat]

30 minutes ago, Lorekitten said:

The idea of Sonic not liking guns probably came from the Archie comics, where there was a... thing... explaining why the Kingdom of Acorn didn't use guns.

The less I say about that particular story the better, but as with much of Archie Sonic back then, it was probably well-intentioned but still very poorly executed, and the overall plot very likely could've worked every bit as well without it.

Well yeah, but Archie Sonic also dated an OC, and even married her and became king in a what-if story.  Not too surprising that eventually SEGA decided to put their foot down and keep those writers on a short leash, even if they went too far in the other direction since then.

[Lorekitten]

36 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Well yeah, but Archie Sonic also dated an OC, and even married her and became king in a what-if story.  Not too surprising that eventually SEGA decided to put their foot down and keep those writers on a short leash, even if they went too far in the other direction since then.

Look, I never argued that the Archie comics were anything close to game canon, and I certainly never accused them of being hinged (um, as in 'not being unhinged'). I only wanted to provide context as to why some people see Sonic as anti-gun. I'm well aware that those are two different canons with drastic differences between them, but a lot of people see Archie Sonic as their holy grail Sonic, so that naturally colors their perception of canon Sonic.

To be fair, I did very much enjoy Ian Flynn's run of the Archie Sonic comics pre-reboot, or at least I did until the Naugus arc happened, the core Freedom Fighter group got absolutely decimated, and my favorite character went boom. Say what you will about the post-reboot, but at least we got Antoine back, even if it was only for a short while before the series ended forever.

...and I'm probably derailing the topic right now.

[jungle_penguins]

In the game I'm pretty sure Sonic says he doesn't want to use guns.

As someone who unironically likes every aspect of the Shadow the Hedgehog game, I feel like they reconciled with the game a very long time ago. Perhaps some "we shouldn't reference those guns again everyone hated that" but a lot of its elements carried over for years. I'm counting that theme song in the hero ending as the big one. If the developers feel inspired to go full on pump action MP5 with the aliens, that's strange but in terms of risk, I consider just a continuation of the same problems for the past 2 decades.

Maybe I'm wrong and Iizuka gets flashbacks anytime something is referenced from Shadow the Hedgehog and had to be heavily persuaded, but I really think they don't view things like the fans do. 

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, jungle_penguins said:

In the game I'm pretty sure Sonic says he doesn't want to use guns.

He does; it's just that he never said or did anything to suggest that aversion before then.  Not that people would have expected him to use guns, either; the point is just that using guns doesn't contradict anything about Sonic's personality and motives and his aversion is simply out of SEGA's desire to keep his image more family-friendly.

Although come to think of it, they did a pretty piss-poor job at that with the way they marketed the game.  They revealed it in an infamous trailer at Sonic's induction into the Walk of Game ceremony, with Shadow shooting up a TV playing older Sonic games, and that pretty much ensured that.

1) Lots of Sonic fans would see it.

2) Lots of Sonic fans would hate it.

3) It would come off to everyone like SEGA implying that they thought the franchise used to be lame but now it was getting cooler, because of adding guns and vague morality.

Even if he did disavow guns in the first level of the game, Sonic himself was most definitely tarred by association with the game, and if not for 06 following soon after, I get the feeling Shadow the Hedgehog would still be regarded as the game that made the whole franchise a laughingstock.  It certainly deserves to be remembered as the first time they demonstrated a loss of faith in the brand's innate appeal and developed a long-running and self-destructive obsession with revamping it for modern audiences.  Some would argue that in retrospect, that started with Sonic Adventure, but never before that Walk of Game trailer had they shouted their low self-esteem so loudly.

Edited May 27 by Scritch the Cat

[Scritch the Cat]

1 hour ago, jungle_penguins said:

If the developers feel inspired to go full on pump action MP5 with the aliens, that's strange but in terms of risk, I consider just a continuation of the same problems for the past 2 decades.

I mean, technically guns have already come back in Sonic Forces in the form of the Wispons, and have stuck around as part of Whisper the Wolf's abilities.  Yes, they're powered by live aliens rather than explosives, which oddly enough seems more like the sort of thing Eggman would normally do, and if Whisper started using more conventional firearms, the ESRB rating would likely go up, but I'm guessing most other people wouldn't really mind.  I know I wouldn't.  Honestly, I think the stupidity about real-world guns goes in multiple directions.  It reeks of fragile ego to want to fill a cartoon animal franchise with them, let-alone make that your first impression, but it also feels incredibly stupid to treat real-world guns as less family friendly than more cartoony/SciFi ones.  I'm always thinking of that semi-joke Will Arnett made, that someday, somebody is going to go on a rampage with a laser and then the creator's of "family-friendly" media are all going to look incredibly stupid.

Edit: Damn, looks like the auto-merge time has decreased.  Maybe.  Sorry about the double-post.

Edited May 27 by Scritch the Cat

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I mean, it really depends on portrayal and details.

You can make a laser slice someone in half, like the ones shown in the classic anime Akira, and show the bloody effects of it and have it be seen just as family unfriendly as real weapons on a much higher tier.

On the other hand, if you show lasers simply stunning people like the ones used in Disney’s Gargoyles, you can still keep it family friendly yet realistic(?) without the bloody effects.

I think most people are aware that lasers are dangerous, but because it’s not as easy to make them as deadly nor are they as easy to acquire, they don’t get the same treatment as realistic guns do. Time will tell how long that stays the case tho.

Edited May 27 by CrownSlayers Shadow

[Lorekitten]

In fairness, it's not like Sonic not liking guns goes against his previously established character traits. Admittedly Sega has committed actual character assassination multiple times in this franchise, but I don't count this among them.

But if you think about things from a purely physics-based perspective, both Sonic and Shadow are easily faster than bullets anyway, so what's the point?

[castell-neath]

Easy fix. Retcon the gun to have whisp powers that damage black doom in certain ways. If its good enough for the avatar in forces, its good enough here. Job done. 

Edited May 27 by castell-neath

[MetalSkulkBane]

1 hour ago, castell-neath said:

Easy fix. Retcon the gun to have whisp powers that damage black doom in certain ways. If its good enough for the avatar in forces, its good enough here. Job done. 

1 Do we retcon Colors to happen before Shadow?
2 Do Wisps hurt humans? And let Shadow use them when he's evil?
 

[castell-neath]

31 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

1 Do we retcon Colors to happen before Shadow?
2 Do Wisps hurt humans? And let Shadow use them when he's evil?
 

1. Hm. Good point.  It goes Sa2, Heroes, 06 in terms of playable Shadow and story. Also, its made clear Gens happens just after Colours. Yeh...big plot hole point there. 

2. Whisps could "confuse" to subdue or "stun" humans in a non invasive manner?

Sod it...retcon it to a bubble gun and say dishawsher fluid is toxic to black doom. Lol

[The Swordsman]

I never was on the hate train for the Shadow the Hedgehog game to begin with. With only my real issue with it being that we don't know the actual canon path Shadow took. (though out of all the theory videos I've seen I think GamingTopTen is on the right track with his justification for route 94 For Love's Sake) Heck Archie used the stuff from Shadow the Hedgehog, even the stuff mocked like Shadow's motorcycle, to great effect. (Eclipse in particular being a wonderful addition to the villain cast)

EDIT: One thing that was unexpected about the game but made me like it is it has a bit of world building. The easter egg from SA2 is fully fleshed out into the Black Arms and how they convert the area into these weird plants to surive, we finally get to meet the current day GUN commander, Shadow joins GUN in the challenge mode, we get the reason why Gerald would build the Eclipse Canon, etc.

Edited May 27 by The Swordsman

[Lorekitten]

26 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

Heck Archie used the stuff from Shadow the Hedgehog, even the stuff mocked like Shadow's motorcycle, to great effect.

I will forever love the Treasure Team Tango cover with Cream on top of Shadow's motorcycle.

(The black outline isn't part of the cover, I just had difficulty obtaining a clean version of the image)

Edited May 27 by Lorekitten