The creation of shadow and the sonic timeline mess

[Matt98]

Does sonic have abilities that no else has or choas abilities or something else ?

[Matt98]

This guy right? 

[Sega DogTagz]

1 hour ago, Matt98 said:

Does sonic have abilities that no else has or choas abilities or something else

 

In terms of pure abilities? Not so much. If you really wanted to stretch it, you could dig through the weeds and pull out things like the "magic hands" from SA2 or his insta-shield from back in the day.

 

The biggest standout from Sonic's toolset would probably be his adaptability. No matter where Sonic goes or what he interacts with, he is often able to - near instantly - absorb and utilize that power for himself. We just saw it in Frontiers. Sonic absorbed Cyber energy en masse and used it to fuel new techniques. Tails, Knux and Amy were exposed to the same conditions and could not do that. Drop him in the story of King Arthur - and not only does he pick up swordsmanship in a flash, but he harnesses the power of their local magguffins and transforms. He picks up an extreme gear and He's on par if not better than the greatest hoverboard racer in the history of the planet in a few days. Shoot him in the heart with a fire arrow, and it somehow grants him control over speed and time. Wisps pop up, he can absorb them. Put him in a car, and he's drifting like its a F&F movie... it goes on and on and on.

 

 

You can chalk some of that up to experience. Sonic has spend a lifetime thrillseeking and adventuring making him a jack-of-all trades. No matter the situation, Sonic can adapt and overcome. He can utilize seemingly any power source and make it his own. He learns, reacts and adjusts on a scale that no one else in the franchise can match.

[Matt98]

36 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

In terms of pure abilities? Not so much. If you really wanted to stretch it, you could dig through the weeds and pull out things like the "magic hands" from SA2 or his insta-shield from back in the day.

The biggest standout from Sonic's toolset would probably be his adaptability. No matter where Sonic goes or what he interacts with, he is often able to - near instantly - absorb and utilize that power for himself. We just saw it in Frontiers. Sonic absorbed Cyber energy en masse and used it to fuel new techniques. Tails, Knux and Amy were exposed to the same conditions and could not do that. Drop him in the story of King Arthur - and not only does he pick up swordsmanship in a flash, but he harnesses the power of their local magguffins and transforms. He picks up an extreme gear and He's on par if not better than the greatest hoverboard racer in the history of the planet in a few days. Shoot him in the heart with a fire arrow, and it somehow grants him control over speed and time. Wisps pop up, he can absorb them. Put him in a car, and he's drifting like its a F&F movie... it goes on and on and on.

You can chalk some of that up to experience. Sonic has spend a lifetime thrillseeking and adventuring making him a jack-of-all trades. No matter the situation, Sonic can adapt and overcome. He can utilize seemingly any power source and make it his own. He learns, reacts and adjusts on a scale that no one else in the franchise can match.

Ok Is this guy right?  About the shadow abilities?

[Eggman Fan]

He's the only person to use: Sonic Wind, Charged Homing Attack, His Battle Moveset (Emerl doesn't count), Wisp Forms, Double/Triple Boost requires Sonic, Magic Hands, Insta-Shield, Fire Shield Dash, Electric Shield Double Jump, Water Shield Bounce, Turning others into their super forms, giving others a shield in his super form, Time Travel via signpost, Phantom Rush, Those energy blades from Frontiers, Cyloop, Cyloop Chains, Cyloop Spears, and Boosting is his technique.

His unique forms include: Darkspine, Werehog, Excalibur, Dark, Hyper, and he was the first character to use Super.

[Matt98]

16 hours ago, Eggman Fan said:

He's the only person to use: Sonic Wind, Charged Homing Attack, His Battle Moveset (Emerl doesn't count), Wisp Forms, Double/Triple Boost requires Sonic, Magic Hands, Insta-Shield, Fire Shield Dash, Electric Shield Double Jump, Water Shield Bounce, Turning others into their super forms, giving others a shield in his super form, Time Travel via signpost, Phantom Rush, Those energy blades from Frontiers, Cyloop, Cyloop Chains, Cyloop Spears, and Boosting is his technique.

His unique forms include: Darkspine, Werehog, Excalibur, Dark, Hyper, and he was the first character to use Super.

So he can match shadow? Apparently shadow used the wisps in Forces? @Eggman Fan

[Matt98]

How come shadow is the only one who can defeat the villian in shadow the hedgehog and is able to beat the nerve gas? Is it because it's his own game? is there villians shadow can't beat that sonic can. Is the reason dark doom is able to freeze sonic is because he has the choas emeralds? 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

1) Consider in the future more specific tittle. Like "Question about Shadow the Game" or "Why was Shadow immune to Black Doom gas"
You know, better context.

And I don't think it's ever spelled out, but I think it's because he's half alien himself. Just earthling enough to be affected, but dark-arm enough to be able to fight through it.

[Matt98]

16 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

1) Consider in the future more specific tittle. Like "Question about Shadow the Game" or "Why was Shadow immune to Black Doom gas"
You know, better context.

And I don't think it's ever spelled out, but I think it's because he's half alien himself. Just earthling enough to be affected, but dark-arm enough to be able to fight through it.

@MetalSkulkBanesorry I'm new to the forum thanks for answering 

 

does that mean sonic couldn't beat black doom and shadow can? What bosses has sonic beat that shadow couldn't beat? 

 

 

 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:51 AM, Eggman Fan said:

He's the only person to use: Sonic Wind, Charged Homing Attack, His Battle Moveset (Emerl doesn't count), Wisp Forms, Double/Triple Boost requires Sonic, Magic Hands, Insta-Shield, Fire Shield Dash, Electric Shield Double Jump, Water Shield Bounce, Turning others into their super forms, giving others a shield in his super form, Time Travel via signpost, Phantom Rush, Those energy blades from Frontiers, Cyloop, Cyloop Chains, Cyloop Spears, and Boosting is his technique.

His unique forms include: Darkspine, Werehog, Excalibur, Dark, Hyper, and he was the first character to use Super.

Mostly right, but Knuckles has a Hyper form as well, and Tails' super form in S3&K seems somewhat equivalent to a Hyper form. Also, in the Sonic Rush games, Blaze can use Fire Boost, which is basically the same as the Boost.

[Matt98]

Does shadow has a weakness and can he swim?

[GX -The Spindash-]

I feel like your series-based questions might better be handled by spending time on the Sonic News Network Wiki. Not trying to be an ass, but these seem more series-generalized than actual discussion questions.

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_News_Network

[Matt98]

36 minutes ago, GX -The Spindash- said:

I feel like your series-based questions might better be handled by spending time on the Sonic News Network Wiki. Not trying to be an ass, but these seem more series-generalized than actual discussion questions.

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_News_Network

Oh ok 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I don't think Shadow has ever been depicted swimming, but has also never been stated to be unable to swim like Sonic. I'd probably assume he can.

[Eggman Fan]

On 2/13/2023 at 6:17 PM, Matt98 said:

So he can match shadow? Apparently shadow used the wisps in Forces? @Eggman Fan

I didn't bother playing the Shadow DLC in Forces, but I guess Shadow can use the boost wisps in that game.

3 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Mostly right, but Knuckles has a Hyper form as well, and Tails' super form in S3&K seems somewhat equivalent to a Hyper form. Also, in the Sonic Rush games, Blaze can use Fire Boost, which is basically the same as the Boost.

You are correct about Hyper, but the Fire Boost isn't the Boost. It's just a very similarly named equivalent.  

[Eggman Fan]

Shadow has Black Arms DNA and I guess that makes him immune to the nerve gas and stuff.

Also Shadow is quite literally built different, so maybe he just has an immunity.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

11 minutes ago, Eggman Fan said:

You are correct about Hyper, but the Fire Boost isn't the Boost. It's just a very similarly named equivalent.  

I guess you could say they have similar results, but different mechanisms (Blaze uses her fire to boost herself forward, but Sonic just uses his speed).

[Matt98]

Was shadow created as a clone of sonic? Does the name shadow in reference to being the shadow of sonic?

[Matt98]

 

I'm so confused folks was shadow by Sega created to be equal in ability to sonic? Even though he was created 50 years before the genesis Era? This mean that shadow is really the main character I'm so lost the timeline is so messy

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

7 hours ago, Matt98 said:

does that mean sonic couldn't beat black doom and shadow can? What bosses has sonic beat that shadow couldn't beat? 

Practically no one.

Okay, to be specific, Shadow lost to Infinite (but so did Sonic) and got mind controlled by Lyric (not a fair lose). In both cases Sonic beat the villain later, but with help.

Generally speaking Shadow should have skills to take down any opponent Sonic does. Stories with both of them working together ussually:
A) treat them as equal partners (SA2, Sonic X)
B) Shadow just kinda chooses to sit on the side (Heroes, Generations, Forces)
Only really unique case was IDW comics, Metal Virus storyline. Short version: Shadow refused to run from overwhelming enemy and got himself defeated while Sonic run and won later.

[MetalSkulkBane]

My grandma is older than Sonic, but that doesn't make her main character of the franchise.

Shadow was NOT made to match Sonic, their similarities are pure coincidence. At least as far as we know. There are few theories, most popular is that Gerald saw a mural that prophesied Sonic's fight with Eggmanand decided to base his creation on this hedgehog. (Murals like that were seen in Sonic 3, on Angel Island).

But that's fanon, a unconfirmed speculation.

[Matt98]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Practically no one.

Okay, to be specific, Shadow lost to Infinite (but so did Sonic) and got mind controlled by Lyric (not a fair lose). In both cases Sonic beat the villain later, but with help.

Generally speaking Shadow should have skills to take down any opponent Sonic does. Stories with both of them working together ussually:
A) treat them as equal partners (SA2, Sonic X)
B) Shadow just kinda chooses to sit on the side (Heroes, Generations, Forces)
Only really unique case was IDW comics, Metal Virus storyline. Short version: Shadow refused to run from overwhelming enemy and got himself defeated while Sonic run and won later.

So they are equals? What does Sega or the creators of sonic and shadow mean they are rivals?

[Matt98]

11 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

My grandma is older than Sonic, but that doesn't make her main character of the franchise.

Shadow was NOT made to match Sonic, their similarities are pure coincidence. At least as far as we know. There are few theories, most popular is that Gerald saw a mural that prophesied Sonic's fight with Eggmanand decided to base his creation on this hedgehog. (Murals like that were seen in Sonic 3, on Angel Island).

But that's fanon, a unconfirmed speculation.

Aren't they equal? They creators made a dark version of Sonic which became shadow. But this all doesn't make sense the genesis Era is like the first part of the sonic universe its weird how we never get an orgin story with that.

15 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

My grandma is older than Sonic, but that doesn't make her main character of the franchise.

Shadow was NOT made to match Sonic, their similarities are pure coincidence. At least as far as we know. There are few theories, most popular is that Gerald saw a mural that prophesied Sonic's fight with Eggmanand decided to base his creation on this hedgehog. (Murals like that were seen in Sonic 3, on Angel Island).

But that's fanon, a unconfirmed speculation.

It's like sonic birthed the universe and now it is retconed?

[MetalSkulkBane]

You're mixing logic of real life and fiction.

Sega made Shadow based on Sonic, giving him equal-ish speed and strength. 100% intentional for story reasons.

Dr. Gerald Robotnik made Ultimate Life Form which (again, as far as it's confirmed) resembles Sonic by pure coincidence.

[Dreadknux]

I've merged all three topics you posted, Matt98. Please stick to this one topic if you want to continue discussion, but if all you're going to do is ask questions that don't bring any discussion value (and can be easily searchable via Google or wikis) then I'm afraid I'll have to lock this topic. We're not a Q&A board.

As I mentioned in other threads, most of the whole Sonic/Shadow deal you're asking about is something that can only really be discussed with fan theories. Unless we have definitive lore/canonical answers from SEGA and Sonic Team on, it's not something that we can talk about on here as all it amounts to really is a standard "who is better, Sonic or Shadow" argument. And we're all kinda past that.