Are alternate gameplay styles really a bad thing?

[Razule]

A common argument against them is that they break the pace of the game because they're too different from Sonic's. But recently I've noticed that a lot of people actually liked things like Tails' mech stages, and Knuckles' treasure hunting. There's a reason games like the Adventures and Unleashed PS3/360 are looked fondly upon by many as some of the best Sonic games, and the idea that it's just Sonic's gameplay people liked actually seems a bit ridiculous in retrospect.

So, are alternate gameplay styles really an issue if they're good? Sure it's kinda jarring switching between high speed action and fishing, but what if fishing is.. fun? Sure they're not like Sonic, but does that matter if they're not trying to be?

[Blacklightning]

Flow breaking is one thing, but it's not something innate to the concept so much as the execution - Gamma in SA1 is proof enough of that.

However, the crux of the problem is that it banks heavily on the idea that the bulk of the game's audience is interested in several wildly diverse game styles at once, most of which aren't even built on the core mechanics and identity of the series establish prior. People want to be able to buy a Sonic game and expect to be able to play a Sonic game, and that often leads to situations like SA2 where two thirds of the entire game just do not interest them in any way. And honestly, is that even fair? When the most invested fans in the franchise are the ones who get punished because Sega found yet another ridiculous fad to chase? Even if you make the argument that they're still objectively good on other merits, that just begs the question why they can't be their own identity rather than forcibly tacking them on to Sonic's to milk them for brand recognition.

And especially now of all times, when there's just so many splits in the fandom that it's hard to come up with a single idea of what Sonic even is anymore, is not the time that Sega should be pulling this shit. Don't make a genre roullette to fish for other audiences at the core playerbase's expense - have a focused core of mechanics and principles, and design everything in the game around that, including the remaining playable cast. This isn't rocket science.

[Diogenes]

If I just wanted anything that's fun, there's hundreds of other games out there I could buy. I follow this series because there is something particular to Sonic's gameplay that I can't get anywhere else. And I don't want to spend $60 for a game with only $20 worth of the content I'm actually looking for.

Special stages or minigames or whatever are one thing, but splitting the game equally between a bunch of different styles, to the point that the actual "Sonic" gameplay is half or even less of the game, is honestly pretty ridiculous.

[RadicalLaRuby]

16 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

Flow breaking is one thing, but it's not something innate to the concept so much as the execution - Gamma in SA1 is proof enough of that.

However, the crux of the problem is that it banks heavily on the idea that the bulk of the game's audience is interested in several wildly diverse game styles at once, most of which aren't even built on the core mechanics and identity of the series establish prior. People want to be able to buy a Sonic game and expect to be able to play a Sonic game, and that often leads to situations like SA2 where two thirds of the entire game just do not interest them in any way. And honestly, is that even fair? When the most invested fans in the franchise are the ones who get punished because Sega found yet another ridiculous fad to chase? Even if you make the argument that they're still objectively good on other merits, that just begs the question why they can't be their own identity rather than forcibly tacking them on to Sonic's to milk them for brand recognition.

And especially now of all times, when there's just so many splits in the fandom that it's hard to come up with a single idea of what Sonic even is anymore, is not the time that Sega should be pulling this shit. Don't make a genre roullette to fish for other audiences at the core playerbase's expense - have a focused core of mechanics and principles, and design everything in the game around that, including the remaining playable cast. This isn't rocket science.

Totally agree. This is where Sonic Team has failed several times, keeping the games consistent in mechanics. They try so hard to do everything to reach out to more people, and end up dividing the fanbase even more. That is why as rabid and annoying as the fanbase can be, I can't really put the blame on them. It's the creator's job to make the game and keep it recognizable in mechanics, not try to appeal to every single demographic by fragmenting its own identity.

 

I found Gamma fun, because thankfully unlike Tails and Eggman in SA2, he's fast on his feet while shooting. But that doesn't mean the gameplay should be in a Sonic game. Save that for some new or abandoned Sega IP.

[Writer's Blah]

2 hours ago, Razule said:

A common argument against them is that they break the pace of the game because they're too different from Sonic's. But recently I've noticed that a lot of people actually liked things like Tails' mech stages, and Knuckles' treasure hunting. There's a reason games like the Adventures and Unleashed PS3/360 are looked fondly upon by many as some of the best Sonic games, and the idea that it's just Sonic's gameplay people liked actually seems a bit ridiculous in retrospect.

So, are alternate gameplay styles really an issue if they're good? Sure it's kinda jarring switching between high speed action and fishing, but what if fishing is.. fun? Sure they're not like Sonic, but does that matter if they're not trying to be?

Where did you come up with that idea? Outside of the Sonic fandom, both Adventure games and Unleashed are seen as piss-poor entries into the series. I mean, they're MY favorite games in the franchise, but that opinion certainly doesn't reflect the gaming community at large. But as @Blacklightning and @Diogenes already stated, they're not what people come to Sonic games for. For every alternate gameplay style that Sonic Team has come up with since SA1, that could've been fleshed into its own non-Sonic project. Some could have been fun even! I think there's legitimate merit in Gamma's and Werehog's gameplay styles were they to be expanded on, but most people don't expect slow, methodical gameplay out of a Sonic game.

There's a select few people that don't exclusively expect speedy platforming out of Sonic, and for them, alternate playstyles are fine so long as they're well executed. 3D platformers, up until recently, were a rarity in the modern game market, so I'd happily lap up any form of platforming Sonic might throw at me, fast or not. But I'm an anomaly. To indulge you though, I would like to question the alternate playstyles in the specific games you brought up, and test Dio's claim on whether each experience is truly available in a better capacity outside of that respective Sonic game.

First, off the top of my head, the Werehog is a pretty blatant God of War clone. Even if GoW's aesthetic isn't your thing, you have Alice: Madness Returns as an alternative. Werehog presents a few more platforming-specific challenges than the former two, but most people don't go to a brawler for platforming. So unless you specifically want a platforming-infused, non-bloody GoW, you won't find much appeal in the Werehog in a vacuum. Big the Cat is a literal fishing mini-game. You get a very shallow swimming mechanic and extraordinarily light platforming mixed in, but you might as well play an actual fishing game at that point, which itself was available from SEGA with their Bass Fishing game.

Knuckles gameplay in the Adventure titles can best be summed up as "fast Mario 64/Sunshine red coin missions." That's pretty specific, but the radar mechanics in SA2 and the piss-easy stages in SA1 means this playstyle doesn't have a whole lot of staying power. Amy is a really weird mix of slow platforming, puzzle-solving, and stealth mechanics all mashed together, and it does none of those aspects particularly well. If that specific combination sounds interesting to you, you can simply go and play the Sly Cooper trilogy.

The one that really interests me though is the mech gameplay. Gamma/Eggman/Mech Tails have a very specific platforming/shooting fusion that I don't think I've ever seen in another game before. What interests me the most is the progression used in those stages, where you're encouraged to continue moving forward through the platforming challenges as you lock onto as many enemies as you can, instead of manually trying to shoot at each one individually. It lends itself well to being a speedier Ratchet & Clank that emphasizes quick reaction times and hover mechanics over meandering over a crowd of enemies and choosing the best gun to wipe them all out with. I'd legitimately like to see what an expansion of this gameplay style might look like if it wasn't tied to the Sonic franchise.

[Kvitron Z]

Of corse not bad. They good enough if game not level of quality of Sonic 2006. Each character - each style and spirit. Except - Big, of corse.

Playable characters with personal gameplay - is not evil. Because they not like Sonic. Even gameplay from ShTH can work, if it's work right (for someone other character. Without super speed).

[JezMM]

In addition to what others have said already, another issue is presenting them side by side with expected Sonic gameplay (assuming it's executed well), means no matter how good the side gameplay is, it'll always seem less appealing compared to the Sonic gameplay.

I imagine, even for those who enjoyed the overall package, there's probably a decently sized group of people who would trade in all five of the other characters in Sonic Adventure to double Sonic's stage count in that game (or maybe some would settle for even less than that, like 5 stages, I feel I would), even though that would OVERALL result in a shorter game.

[knuckles20]

^Which leaves me to ask how many people would seriously pay $40+ for a 4-5 hour experience?

 

[JezMM]

1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

^Which leaves me to ask how many people would seriously pay $40+ for a 4-5 hour experience?

 

I'm sure many people would have paid this much for Mania, but it is very much a person-to-person basis as to what is more important - quantity or quality.

Sadly, my opinion that quality is more important doesn't negate the fact that most people deem quantity to be more important, so I don't have a solution there.

[Blacklightning]

1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

^Which leaves me to ask how many people would seriously pay $40+ for a 4-5 hour experience?

I would much rather have a 4 hour game that I can enjoy enough to play multiple times, than a 10-20 hour one that I won't want to touch ever again after the credits roll. And I'm sure I can't be alone in thinking that, either. Ironically you can actually do a lot more with a single focused playstyle than you can with dozens of completely unrelated ones at once, because the developer's attention isn't spread as thin in the process and it gives them much more room to polish what they have, level design, characters and game quirks all. And well, you know, the game is just generally less shit overall, but laser-focused design is of course just one factor that goes into that.

[knuckles20]

12 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

I would much rather have a 4 hour game that I can enjoy enough to play multiple times, than a 10-20 hour one that I won't want to touch ever again after the credits roll. And I'm sure I can't be alone in thinking that, either. Ironically you can actually do a lot more with a single focused playstyle than you can with dozens of completely unrelated ones at once, because the developer's attention isn't spread as thin in the process and it gives them much more room to polish what they have, level design, characters and game quirks all. And well, you know, the game is just generally less shit overall, but laser-focused design is of course just one factor that goes into that.

Well after playing Generations I felt ripped off after beating it the same day I got it. Because aside from many other problems I have with it, I thought it was really short not only for a Sonic game but a game celebrating it’s 20th anniversary and this is all I’m getting? 

 

 

[SpongicX]

They can be a problem, when they take up too much of the gameplay, and aren’t a player’s preferred playstyle of the game. From what I’ve seen, most don’t complain how they hated other modes because of the characters, they hated it because they like the characters, and want to see them go through the same levels as Sonic, while using their own abilities to get through.

If people want to play as Tails, they want to be able to run around and fly as Tails, not be stuck in short races against Sonic, or stuck in a clunky mech shootout level with terrible platforming.

When people play as Knuckles, they want to punch, climb, and glide their way to the finish, not be stuck wasting about 10 or more minutes treasure hunting.

When playing as Amy, they want to see her run fast, and hammer swing through a bunch of enemies, not be slow as heck, and only get three levels of running away from a pesky robot.

We never really got a 3d game that allows Sonic’s friends to share the same experience as Sonic, while being able to use their own abilities to get through in their own ways. Most seem to like just Sonic’s levels, which seems to be why most Sonic games are all about Sonic now. 

It is not only tiring how Sonic’s pals aren’t playable anymore, but it sucks how Sega has to force 2d segments and levels into each game, despite calling them 3d games. I wish Sega would just have a team dedicated to pleasing the 2d fans, while getting back to making better 3d games. Sega is not pleasing the 3d fans by forcing 2d in our faces. It breaks the flow of the games to one minute be running forward, to suddenly be stuck only moving left and right out of nowhere. These playstyles belong in their own games, not constantly forced into every single game.

[isCasted]

I've been on a sort of nostalgia rush with release of Mania and Forces, so I had been wanting to replay Sonic games I played way back (namely Adventure 1 and 2) and see if my fond memories of them would still hold up (GameGrumps playthrough of SADX encouraged many popular YouTubers to do the same, and even some of the biggest optimists were left disappointed).

Anyway, I did notice that I favored Sonic greatly over others, but there are nuances. I'll break everything down in the spoiler box, mostly talking about SA1.

Spoiler

 

In SA1 other characters (except for Big, I didn't even want to touch him) were, in fact, fun, but only on my first story run. I simply didn't feel any sort of desire to revisit them. Sonic's gameplay has depth, and a lot of it. Due to the way Sonic controls (just running around in hub worlds with Sonic gave me this childish excitement, no other 3D Sonic game has ever come close to this feel) and levels are designed you can move through large chunks of them them as slow or as fast as the game's extremely outdated engine allows you to (you are bound to clip through the ground or walls, or die because of abrupt camera changes). It really feels like modern technologies could bring new life to this style.

On the other hand, playing as Tails I felt like the game treated me like an idiot, because winning was as simple as going through the floating hoops, and hoops just carry you through the level. If hoops weren't there, it'd feel like some sort of a challenge, since stages have natural shortcuts that can be exploited with flight. Thing is, if you take out the racing element, you end up with much easier and less rewarding Sonic. That's essentially what he is in 2D games. I don't want to play as Tails when I have mastered Sonic. There's nothing wrong with having him as an option for less skilled players, but option is the key word here. Making it mandatory for story progression would simply not be an ideal choice (then again, key word is ideal. SA1 has freaking Big in it, after all, and in comparison to that mandatory Tails is an extremely miniscule issue). Now, I'd like to see levels fully tailored *shot* to his flight would be like. SA1 flight is a big improvement over classic flight due to its speed, and just having a little more vertical control could create opportunities for more serious challenges. Also, have it be affected by your momentum when you start flying. Imagine being propelled at high speeds over a pit (not necessarily a bottomless one), and you need to maneuver around a bunch of floating enemies and whatnot. That would be a good adrenaline pump worthy of a Sonic game, and it'd also feel different enough from Sonic to justify its inclusion for all skill levels and not just newbies.

Knuckles... I just don't know. I find Knuckles very weird even in 2D games. So many times I slowly climbed up a long wall to only find out there's nothing there. Gliding depends on level design: it's either so strong it plays the game for you or so weak it barely matters, times when it feels balanced are very rare. Walls that open extra pathways? It's just proof that Knuckles needs levels tailored to him. Mirage Saloon Act 1K was fun, but I believe it was only because it felt like a breath of fresh air. I don't know how many levels like that they can make in the future before it gets old. Same applies to emerald hunting in SA1: it was fun, but only as a one-shot type of deal (like Color powers). SA2 hunting stages can go fuck themselves; on my recent playthrough I stopped bothering and downloaded a 100% save off the Internet as soon as I got to Aquatic Mine. Now, what kind of cool thing can be done to Knuckles to make him truly feel unique but flowing well? It was already done - drilling. Imagine that act of Green Hill Zone in Sonic 1 where you can backtrack to find speed shoes. Imagine if Knuckles could go there right from the start of a level by digging into the ground. Imagine being able to climb various surfaces not slowly, but as fast as Drill wispon in Forces. You can also add momentum and dodging things into equation somehow, just like in my example for Tails.

Mech shooting... Once again, SA1 version is ok for the first time but has no depth, and SA2 version is fucking unbearable due to much worse controls and zero sense of speed, as well as methodical """""platforming""""". Gamma was fast, and you could sort of lock onto things surrounding you without slowing down too much, not to mention good aerial control. Timer ticking down kinda requires you to pay attention to how many things you lock on, whereas HP bar replaces that aspect with having to prioritize taking down targets that are a bigger threat - both have interesting merits. Still, holding down a button and circling around is not deep and doesn't mix well with sense of Sonic. What can fix it? Sword, flamethrower, grenades... Yea, think Wispons from Forces, except not shit. People seem to hate health bars on enemies in Sonic games, but I believe they can be done right, and for mech shooting to be really engaging it's an absolute necessity. Finally... Jet boosters! In general, take inspiration from Vanquish and/or AIS from Phantasy Star Online 2.

Amy... I don't think Amy is a good character for 2D games, but in 3D her acrobatics hold great potential. The only thing I believed Amy was lacking in SA1 was speed. She's just unbearably slow. However, mods are a thing (huge thanks to MainMemory for all the effort, I imagine working with this game was painful). I gave Amy Sonic's physics and put her in Sonic's stages. The end result is... Absolutely fucking amazing. It's a shame she only worked in a few levels and that she can't bounce off enemies when hitting them (bouncing on HA chains would be so fun), but I had to rethink the way I approached a lot of platforming segments. Maintaining her speed also felt extremely satisfying, even if it wasn't all that hard. With all those things in mind you get a solid base that could be expanded with more interesting moves, especially combat-focused ones.

Then there are grappling mechanics (Werehog, Enerbeam, Espio, Avatar)... Somebody tell SEGA that grappling hooks are supposed to be fun. They shouldn't be completely scripted. There should be momentum. There should be full control over swinging, grabbing and releasing them, as well as wire length. Grabbing points should be placed in more creative locations. It should be possible to use them to adjust and redirect your momentum, like drift in Forces but not just for drift. For example, getting some extra speed when climbing walls. Well, having all of that might be too complex and possibly even impossible for a Sonic game (controllers only have so many buttons). The point is - do it right or don't do it at all. If it can be done right, being actually able to play in a way that Werehog behaves in cutscenes (grabbing on buildings and flying away from Amy, jumping and sliding from platform to platform before Egg Dragoon fight etc) would be amazing.

 

Ultimately, everything is up to execution. I personally play Sonic games for fast action and depth that lets you go faster through the levels, and I expect whatever alternate playstyles there are to feel thrilling fast too, even if they aren't exactly close to each other (Classic and Modern Sonic play pretty differently in Generations, but both are still thrilling with their speed and ways in which you can improve). For me Shopper mode from Worms-type games (especially Worms Armageddon and Hedgewars) belongs more to a Sonic game than Knuckles with his emerald hunting, and I'll take the entirety of Quake franchise over Adventures' mech shooting. Heck, I'd most likely enjoy Werehog if they chose Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry as a base instead of God of War. But doing things well requires effort, and modern corporate culture just doesn't allow that.

[JezMM]

6 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

Well after playing Generations I felt ripped off after beating it the same day I got it. Because aside from many other problems I have with it, I thought it was really short not only for a Sonic game but a game celebrating it’s 20th anniversary and this is all I’m getting? 

 

 

Did you 100% the game on the first day you got it though?  Did you enjoy it enough to 100% the game?  If yes to the latter one, then that needs to be considered as to whether you got your money's worth.  They made more than 4 hours of content for you, they just didn't make it all mandatory to see the end credits.  Would you have felt the game was better value for money if you had to beat EVERY mission to unlock the boss keys?

How difficult it is to see the story aspects of a game through shouldn't be an arbitrary point of reference of whether a game has enough content to be worth money.  By that logic, every game without an ending (Overwatch, The Sims, Animal Crossing, etc) either has zero hours of content and should be free or has infinite content and should cost infinite money.

[Multikaris]

If Sega insist on Sonic’s friends being cheerleaders, would an Elite Beat Agents clone work for them to literally cheer on Sonic?

[knuckles20]

On 11/20/2017 at 3:52 PM, JezMM said:

Did you 100% the game on the first day you got it though?  Did you enjoy it enough to 100% the game?  If yes to the latter one, then that needs to be considered as to whether you got your money's worth.  They made more than 4 hours of content for you, they just didn't make it all mandatory to see the end credits.  Would you have felt the game was better value for money if you had to beat EVERY mission to unlock the boss keys?

How difficult it is to see the story aspects of a game through shouldn't be an arbitrary point of reference of whether a game has enough content to be worth money.  By that logic, every game without an ending (Overwatch, The Sims, Animal Crossing, etc) either has zero hours of content and should be free or has infinite content and should cost infinite money.

When I say "beat it in the first day" I talking about the main story. And along with being sick of Solo Sonic (or Duo Sonic in Generations case) and the other characters getting shafted, yeah I have no problem saying I believe $40 was too much for an 20th anniversary game that felt so lackluster to me. If I'm paying that much money for a game then I should get an experience equivalent to that price. If you like Generations that's fine I don't want to take the enjoyment away the same way others try to do the same for my favorite games but to ME the underuse of the extended cast, short story and me getting tired of Sonic being the only option, is not worth it.

[DabigRG]

On 11/19/2017 at 11:23 PM, Razule said:

A common argument against them is that they break the pace of the game because they're too different from Sonic's. But recently I've noticed that a lot of people actually liked things like Eggmans' mech stages, and Knuckles' treasure hunting. There's a reason games like the Adventures and Unleashed PS3/360 are looked fondly upon by many as some of the best Sonic games, and the idea that it's just Sonic's gameplay people liked actually seems a bit ridiculous in retrospect.

So, are alternate gameplay styles really an issue if they're good? Sure it's kinda jarring switching between high speed action and fishing, but what if fishing is.. fun? Sure they're not like Sonic, but does that matter if they're not trying to be?

Fixed, apparently.

Depends on how its done really. I see Knuckles treasure hunting as being the better of the two main Adventure alternates since it still emphasizes exploration.

Truth is here's always gonna be people complaining about things in a Sonic game not feeling like a Sonic game and there are usually gonna be exceptions to any rule.

I think the reason SEGA stuck with the Boost Formula for so long despite reportedly not really getting it is because it emphasizes what separates Sonic from other games--Speed.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

What I've seen said on the matter is that each new style incorporated is like making a new game, dividing developer time, focus, etc.

So while I do love Knuckles' treasure hunts, odds are a game dedicated to just that would probably turn out better than having that alongside five other gameplay styles.

[JezMM]

6 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

When I say "beat it in the first day" I talking about the main story. And along with being sick of Solo Sonic (or Duo Sonic in Generations case) and the other characters getting shafted, yeah I have no problem saying I believe $40 was too much for an 20th anniversary game that felt so lackluster to me. If I'm paying that much money for a game then I should get an experience equivalent to that price. If you like Generations that's fine I don't want to take the enjoyment away the same way others try to do the same for my favorite games but to ME the underuse of the extended cast, short story and me getting tired of Sonic being the only option, is not worth it.

With these additional reasons you stated, I think that's perfectly reasonable for you to not see it as being worth the money.  Just understand that in the post I was responding to, the only thing you said that made it not worth the price was that the story is only 4 hours long, implying you were only disappointed only in the quantity of the game (which as said, I feel is unfair because the quantity of a game is not defined by how much they force you to play to make the credits roll).  If you were disappointed with the quality as well, that's fair enough, and you can disregard my last post since it was based on only partial information of your feelings.

[superman43]

I believe that there was so much emphasis on Boost gameplay and the Classic gameplay in the newest Sonic games (besides Mania, which truly handles like a gem) that most of us are tired of it. I would welcome a well-done Tails as playable character (nailed the time limitation of flying to not surpass most of the level and be fun) or Knuckles. Or basically any of the characters. Heck, they could use their gameplay from Sonic ´06 and improve it to be well. And add a level design that is challenging and 3D and a bit open.

[Swing]

Sadly I have to say yes. It just breaks the flow of the game. And most of them didn't even were interesting or fun. Most of the alternative gameplay styles were pretty broken as well. I never had that much fun with the fishing gameplay in Sonic Adventures (Zelda and Dark Cloud 2 did a way better job with that), Amy wasn't really that much fun either, The shooting gameplay was okay, but nothing special, the treasure hunting stages were the worst in my opinion, the Werehog was just meh and don't get me started on all the gameplay styles in 06. 

[Multikaris]

I would take them over the weird gimmick levels in Lost World, like the snowball and the juice. The worst part is that these segments were praised for their “creativity” by the same people who bashed the other characters. Also, Tornado Defense is the worst of all the alternate gameplay styles, due to it basically being a QTE.

[MegasonicZX]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

I would take them over the weird gimmick levels in Lost World, like the snowball and the juice. The worst part is that these segments were praised for their “creativity” by the same people who bashed the other characters. Also, Tornado Defense is the worst of all the alternate gameplay styles, due to it basically being a QTE.

Not trying to defend them (honestly speaking, they weren't that bad though) but other character styles normally had full campaigns tied to them as opposed to just being singular levels. Lost world had it's gimmicky levels yeah, but they never stayed for any longer than one level (rail stages notwithstanding) so while it wasn't ideal, you could generally be done with them in one go across an entire game as opposed to having to do 5 or 7 stages of them.

[Skull Leader]

I think it all depends on both context and execution.

Just because the home console games since Sonic Adventure haven't been able to hit the nail, that doesn't mean that the concept is something that is impossible to pull off. 

For example, Sonic Advance took inspiration for Amy's gameplay from Adventure, and appiled that within the context of the Genesis-styled games, which usually call for:

* Characters to play within the same stages as Sonic.
* The goal is to reach the end of the stage.
* Characters are fairly fast, gaining momentum depending on the angle of inclination of the terrain and wether their moving upwards (losing speed) or downwards (gaining it)

It also helps that unlike the 3-D home console games, which still struggle up to this very day with consolidating their very gameplay identity, the Genesis formula is much more solid, proven and extremely flexible and versatile to the point it can accomodate characters that do not require rolling or who have moves that are different from Sonic's and still offer a fun and fast-paced gaming experience.

Sometimes I feel that Sonic Team hasn't tried to do another character like Amy in the 2-D games not because of the alt-gameplay being bad itself, but rather because of the stigma around it that resulted from a very poor and experimental execution within the home console 3- D games that constantly tried to re-invent the wheel when all you needed was to make slight twists without altering the fundamentals blocks (physics that simulate momentum and the increase/reduction of speed as the sprites move on curved surfaces along with pinball-like bouncing mechanics that add a very unique twist to the platforming genre) around which the games are built upon.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

On 11/20/2017 at 3:06 PM, isCasted said:

, I'd most likely enjoy Werehog if they chose Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry as a base instead of God of War. But doing things well requires effort, and modern corporate culture just doesn't allow that.

**On Phone**

I disagree Sonic Team made the gameplay relatively similar to God Of War out of laziness(the fact that they made SWA in 2 years with such technical quality should signal they didn’t slack off as one would possibly presume). A large reasoning for that was because they wanted to appeal to American audiences, and what better way to do it by using a baseline gameplay that was highly popular for the time? But yes, GOW is superficially great but in general it’s quite mindless to the player...Werehog On then other hand, has a lot more depth in terms of platforming compared to GOW from what I played back in the day..

 

As for the OP; Yes and No. On one hand, you get a product that is quite diverse and has a nice variety of play styles. For me, the Werehog  compliments Sonic’s gameplay quite nicely(albeit it needed more tweaking) but it felt a little overbearing all due to the fact that the game didn’t balance itself properly in the beginning with the Werehog starter mechanics. Not a complete determent but it is indeed noticeable.

Tails and Knuckles, despite their own issues being implemented in Sonic3K also did well to support itself. Both titles did a good job in re-using resources to make new content(Werehog went further with this concept).

But it can be abused poorly to extend gameplay time without providing thought into it.

Sonic Adventure 2

Sonic Heroes

Sonic Forces

Sonic Generations(I’ll get to this soon).

All 4 Of these titles, SG less so, extended the playtime by rehashing already existing elements from past games or copies itself! These are good examples in my own perspective, of what not to do with alternate play styles. It’s cheap even if understandable of a reason to do so. Not necessary.

For Generati-

I mean Sonic Unleashed The Diet Edition; It uses it inoffensively like 3K did except 3K’s alternate styles weren’t this mediocre or average. The Classic sections are just implanted goddamn 2D Boost sections without Sonic using the boost. I don’t understand why the game got that much praise for Classic Sonic when’s they only got it half right...