New Sonic Forces Zone revealed: Casino Forest

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

13 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

What? There is literally no acceleration on that slope, are you serious? Did you even watch the video I posted with the timestamp?

Wait you were focusing on just the one bit there?

You should've been more specific, stating that you were talking about momentum in the physics. 

I was talking about the level overall, especially with how some arc air motions so appear to be determined by your speed. 

Also,  in that specific slope,  it's a bit hard to tell,  but it seems that rolling does give you a sight increase in speed downhill. 

 

[Sonikko]

1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

Wait you were focusing on just the one bit there?

You should've been more specific, stating that you were talking about momentum in the physics. 

I was talking about the level overall, especially with how some arc air motions so appear to be determined by your speed. 

Also,  in that specific slope,  it's a bit hard to tell,  but it seems that rolling does give you a sight increase in speed downhill. 

 

Yeah it accelerates slightly and then it's stuck to the ground right at the end of that very slope and rolls down.

That's broken physics for you.

[Blue Blood]

Just now, Josh said:

They couldn't have taken too much influence from Sonic Mania. The game was simply too close to release to make any major changes. 

I don't think they're lying though, and I'm glad to hear they're looking at it.

Classic Sonic has the drop dash, and uses his CD-esque spinning animation going off springs just like in Mania. Forces probably hasn't been in development for as long as we originally thought and the two games probably shared a lot of their development time. Mania clearly had some influence on Forces and visa-versa. But it looks like Mania didn't have much of an influence where it really matters though - the level design and physics are utter crap. The Classic level music isn't up to much either. Mania takes a lot of influence from the Classic games. Did Sonic Team just, like, forget to look at those or something? Cause there's no shortage of lessons to be learned from them.

Oh but hey here is something I really do like:

Not only is this spring not hidden underground, it's not activated by simply running in to the side of it! This really bothered me in Generations because it's a touch of modern automation that really isn't necessary. I'm glad they fixed it here. 

[Dr. Detective]

I really wish we knew more about what was going on behind the scenes over there. No matter how I look at this, it doesn't make any sense for me to chalk it up to them just being lazy for the hell of it. 

Granted, it's not the consumer's job to care one way or the other what's going on behind the scenes. Judge what they give us and nothing else, for certain. However, I care too much to not want to know.

Again, I'm in the middle on Forces. I've seen enough to know I'll enjoy it fine but also recognize that it won't be as enticing, level design wise as Generations was. Yet I'll probably be too drawn in by the narrative and getting a chance to see the characters talk that it won't matter too much. I'll probably end up going back to it and replaying it more because of that fact alone considering the kind of weirdo I am. 

Despite thinking the game's gameplay will be "okay" and not too much else, it's become increasingly hard not to recognize that this isn't an effort that should have taken the 3 years since Lost World came out. Was all that time being used to make this new Hedgehog Engine that still hasn't impressed me yet? 

I just really want to know what's going on over there. Whose poisoning the water hole?

[Spooky Mulder]

12 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

It's literally just Casino Night plastered on top of a Silent Forest. There's nothing creative on show, nor is there any effort to make some good level design. 

 

I think this stage looks especially bad compared to Act 2 of Press Garden in Mania. There’s a great example of a forest location that Eggman has taken over that actually incorporates the forest into the gameplay.

Casino Forest isn’t a forest stage. It’s not even a ruins stage. It’s Casino Night with a new coat of paint. Totally possible that he Modern, Avatar, and Tagteam stages will be different but so far...meh

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Yeah it accelerates slightly and then it's stuck to the ground right at the end of that very slope and rolls down.

That's broken physics for you.

It's a start.

At least we've debunked the misconception that the physics were completely absent. 

Looking forward to what other discoveries and changes in how things are looking we might run into in the future. 

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

Classic Sonic has the drop dash, and uses his CD-esque spinning animation going off springs just like in Mania. Forces probably hasn't been in development for as long as we originally thought and the two games probably shared a lot of their development time. Mania clearly had some influence on Forces and visa-versa. But it looks like Mania didn't have much of an influence where it really matters though - the level design and physics are utter crap. The Classic level music isn't up to much either. Mania takes a lot of influence from the Classic games. Did Sonic Team just, like, forget to look at those or something? Cause there's no shortage of lessons to be learned from them.

 

You can't rearrange a game's whole physics engine within a year of launch. They're just going to hold the L on that one.

I'm more interested in how Mania influences the next game.

[Sonikko]

3 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

It's a start.

At least we've debunked the misconception that the physics were completely absent. 

Looking forward to what other discoveries and changes in how things are looking we might run into in the future. 

Not really, it's not a start. The game has physics as bad as Sonic 4 and that's inexcusable.

Rolling downhill also lets Sonic accelerate slightly in Sonic 4 Episode 2, but that game was still bad.

Why are you trying to whiteknight this game on every single aspect when I am providing you video evidence that it has glaring issues?

[Blue Blood]

14 minutes ago, Josh said:

You can't rearrange a game's whole physics engine within a year of launch. They're just going to hold the L on that one.

I'm more interested in how Mania influences the next game.

Of course they can't rewrite the entire game in one year. That's very true. But:

1. Why were the physics and level design so off in Generations?
2. Why weren't the physics and level design improved at all for Forces, which is 6 years after Generations and 4 years after Lost World?

Mania is a moot point really - like I said before, the Classics have always been there. I really like Generations and Classic remains my favourite part of that game, but there was so much room for improvement that hasn't been actioned at all in Forces. 

I totally hope that Mania influences future Sonic games in a good way. Right now, I'm none too optimistic about that actually happening though. We'll see...

[Dr. Detective]

If Mania has any influence on future Sonic games, can it be in a way that doesn't have Classic Sonic coming back in my 3D Sonic? Like maybe take some ideas from what they did and try and go a step further by seeing how they can make it work in 3D?

 

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

If Mania has any influence on future Sonic games, can it be in a way that doesn't have Classic Sonic coming back in my 3D Sonic? Like maybe take some ideas from what they did and try and go a step further by seeing how they can make it work in 3D?

 

I mean, that would be the ideal for me.

I think being tired of two Sonics is a universal feeling.

[Fletch]

Well... I like it. A lot. I'm a sucker for Casino/Pinball levels in Sonic (Spring Yard Zone, Casino Night Zone, and Collision Chaos being my top favorites), but goodness does this look absolutely gorgeous to me, and I love the concept of there being a casino inside a forest! It's so out there. lol 

 

I'm only hoping physics are good. I guess I'm the only one that may care about this but, the controls felt really good in Generations pinball DLC, but they absolutely messed the controls up in the casino level in Lost World which bummed me out a lot since I love messing around in the casino levels and put a lot of time in Generations DLC  (Enough to max out the score record actually!) If controls are good then yeah... I'm going to have a good time.

[Crazy_Diamond]

OK, so I've noticed several things in these two videos that seem interesting. First of all, the level length seems to be about what we have been shown (unless the build that IGN got starts earlier than the final game).

The Sonic youtube channel got there in 27 seconds, while according to the timer IGN got there at 37 seconds. So unless the build IGN got doesn't contain the full level, then what the Sonic youtube channel showed off is pretty much the full level. Now this is where it gets interesting. Sonic Forces' seems to borrow from Sonic 1, which had a speed cap while running but removes the cap while rolling. Compare these two gifs and you'll see it.

Look at how much farther he goes while rolling. I never expected Sonic Team to borrow physics from Sonic 1 of all games, but there you go. Sorry for the quality btw, I was running up on the file size limit.

[___-_]

Really, it shouldn't even have taken Mania to finally consider doing some proper research, let alone only on just Classic Sonic. They literally have Sonic 1 - 3K just sitting there screaming hello for years now, but they only just now want to consider the most recent classic title for one variation of Sonic in Forces? What about Modern Sonic and his level design? What about the Avatars and Shadow?

I can only hope what they put out after this is for the better, but something tells me they're just talking just to be talking.

 

[Clewis]

I don't really understand the concept for this level. Eggman places a bunch of Casino-related decorations on top of some ancient ruins? Has he made any changes inside the ruins or is utilizing the ruins in some practical way? If Eggman has already taken over the world, why not just bulldoze the ruins and build an actual Casino on top of it? (Actually I think that would have been neater if the stage was a mostly super-industrial Casino location that shows remnants of its ancient ruins foundation along its lower paths)

Also the fact that military Eggpawns are being used in this level is a bit disappointing. Wasn't fond of only a handful of enemy types being seen throughout game's like Unleashed and Heroes, and I really hope that doesn't turn out to be the case in Forces either.

ALSO why are rings given out like candy in this level when the life system isn't in this game? Or when the level has barely any obstacles? It's not like the ranking system is looking to be any stricter than it was in Generations.

I'd comment on the level design, physics, and music, but I think everything's been said already.

Nothing about this game looks outright offensive, but it still continues to be underwhelming in a ton of areas.

[Salamander]

50 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The idea is cool I suppose but I did find myself wondering why the forest was so dark. I know it's night time but the lights didn't look like they were brightening up anything around them. Then again, it could make for a cool aesthetic.

Yes, I had been rather meaning to comment that, for all they may boast about their new lighting engine, all those bright neon gimmicks sure don't seem to be actually illuminating anything.  If you stare hard enough at the screenshots, there is perhaps a dim aura.  But it seems quite disproportionate to the brightness of the light being emitted.

[Blue Blood]

Have we talked much about the vines growing in the background?

They appear to be taking over the ruins here, and it other places causing the ruins to collapse. Similarly to Green Hill becoming a desert, Casino Forest appears to be suffering from Eggman's rule. I like that aesthetic. And I'd like it even more if we find out that this is a result of the Phantom Ruby slowly corrupting things, like it did with the HBHs. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a factory in Green Hill - the landscape slowly began to dry up into a desert, with sand replacing the water. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a casino on some ancient ruins - dangerous plants start to take over. This is just guesswork, and I expect that actually explanation for the bad things happening in these environments will just be "Eggman made it turn bad" (if we even get an explanation at all).

All that said though, it's nothing more than a minor background element in this level, which is a shame. Hopefully Modern Sonic or the Avatar version of this stage will incorporate it more. Classic Sonic's version barely uses the ruin or forest aspect in the slightest.

[Dr. Detective]

I'm so ready for this goddamn story. Please be a least a fraction of what I've wanted for so long on that front at least.

Everything I've seen from it so far has yet to disappoint me there so here's hoping. 

[Red Hot Jack]

I like the aesthetics and music, and Generations HD did lack a Casino stage, but I'm hoping for some new ideas and stage gimmicks, hopefully the Avatar and Modern stages are set inside one of the castles. That would be fun.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Oh this level looks pretty neat

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

Have we talked much about the vines growing in the background?

They appear to be taking over the ruins here, and it other places causing the ruins to collapse. Similarly to Green Hill becoming a desert, Casino Forest appears to be suffering from Eggman's rule. I like that aesthetic. And I'd like it even more if we find out that this is a result of the Phantom Ruby slowly corrupting things, like it did with the HBHs. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a factory in Green Hill - the landscape slowly began to dry up into a desert, with sand replacing the water. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a casino on some ancient ruins - dangerous plants start to take over. This is just guesswork, and I expect that actually explanation for the bad things happening in these environments will just be "Eggman made it turn bad" (if we even get an explanation at all).

All that said though, it's nothing more than a minor background element in this level, which is a shame. Hopefully Modern Sonic or the Avatar version of this stage will incorporate it more. Classic Sonic's version barely uses the ruin or forest aspect in the slightest.

Why is that image so much clearer than the one I saw in the video? Because that actually looks kind of cool. Like some kind of twisted haunted forest that some zombies with a sick sense of humor just decided to decorate with neon lights and casino roulettes. Maybe I should re-watch it because what I saw just looked like a really dark forest background with some lights in the foreground.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

16 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Have we talked much about the vines growing in the background?

They appear to be taking over the ruins here, and it other places causing the ruins to collapse. Similarly to Green Hill becoming a desert, Casino Forest appears to be suffering from Eggman's rule. I like that aesthetic. And I'd like it even more if we find out that this is a result of the Phantom Ruby slowly corrupting things, like it did with the HBHs. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a factory in Green Hill - the landscape slowly began to dry up into a desert, with sand replacing the water. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a casino on some ancient ruins - dangerous plants start to take over. This is just guesswork, and I expect that actually explanation for the bad things happening in these environments will just be "Eggman made it turn bad" (if we even get an explanation at all).

All that said though, it's nothing more than a minor background element in this level, which is a shame. Hopefully Modern Sonic or the Avatar version of this stage will incorporate it more. Classic Sonic's version barely uses the ruin or forest aspect in the slightest.

In addition to that, when Sonic says "I don't know anything about you, not even your name!" We see some man-made pipes snaking into the ancient ruins, probably fixtures built by Eggman. 

[Diogenes]

17 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

They appear to be taking over the ruins here, and it other places causing the ruins to collapse. Similarly to Green Hill becoming a desert, Casino Forest appears to be suffering from Eggman's rule.

Vines overtaking ruins kinda seems like the opposite of Eggman's usual m.o., tho'. That's just nature taking its course.

[SpongicX]

As others have pointed out, the themes of each level do seem to imply being fused hybrids of past levels. What else could we get, Emerald Coast in space? Labrynth Zone in a Volcano? Death Egg underwater?

Are we going to get any levels that truly feel original and new, instead of just meshing two random stages?

[Blue Blood]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Vines overtaking ruins kinda seems like the opposite of Eggman's usual m.o., tho'. That's just nature taking its course.

They're also taking over the casino. I'm hoping that Eggman and/or the Phantom Ruby is causing these unplanned or unwanted changes.