Sonic 4 thread m2k

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I have been thinking to post in my old Sonic 4 thread from a year ago. However I feel my thread beings bad memories from when I didnt argue well. So I want to start fresh. If this topic isnt OK feel free to delete it.

 

Of course this thread is for both Sonic 4 Episode 1 and 2. These are two games for the sequal to the Sonic 3 series. These games are a 2D game that plays like the older games but has modern touches to it.

Episode 1 starts really simple. Stop Eggman from stealing animals. You race through the funky worlds and face bosses you might have met before but on hard mode. You use your moves such as the homing attack and you run really fast through the world. Also this game has mecanics you can interact with such as balls from Labyrnth, the card trails and cannons from Casino Street. Its a VERY simple game.

Episode 2 has Tails and hes playable! You use Tails in all stages and he helps you with flying and powerful spindashes. All of the levels in this game are more challenging and more bright. Also the bosses are very challenging to beat. This game is also built to this idea of co-op. You and Tails need to work together. You can play as in in co-op. Also Metal Sonic returns and you can play as him in Episode Metal.

I guess you can call them 2 and a half D because they have some 3D stuffs in the game as well. 

So, what are your thoughts on this game? Do you have any speedruns for this game? What is your favorite level in this game? 

My thoughts? Well everyone knows I love this game. If I have to chose a favorite its Episode 1 for a longshot. Episode 1 was my first ever 2D Sonic game. So this game I play way before the other 2D Sonic games. 

Episode 1 had enviroments that make it fun to interact in the game. Also the sense of speed was awesome and the perks you get are perfect for speed runs. I really liked they add the homing attack because it felt like the chain attack from the 3D games and I liked the sense of speed when I bounced off a chain to get to another side. It added a fun challenge and a very tense one to. Your homing attack has to be timed with spike enimies. The spindash was really fast and it was good to roll up those 90 degree slopes. The boosters also added a nice sense of speed. I wanted them to add the boost as a earned bonus but it was perfect without it. 

The stages have a rush to them. Not only are they pretty world but the enviroments sometimes have me tense as I have to use my thinking to get through them. Like Lost Labyrnth Act 2, you have to time it right to light tourches to open the gate. You also have to time and think about which card to stand on in the Casino Street Act 2. Also there is a area in the end of Act 3 of the same stage and you have to time your jump or you will die. 

My favorite stages? I love them all! But My favorites are

Lost Labyrinth Act 2: This stage man. It  is cool as fuck with the tourches and puzzles and it makes you think but you also need skill to get this level right as well. Like I say before you need to think and time right. The music for Act 2 also rocks as well. Also the iphone version go-cart rocks as well as its fast but also fun and different.

Mad Gear Act 3: I love ALL the Mad Gear levels. I do alot but Act 3 is my favorite. Why? Because it very well designed and it is a fun level with great music. Sclicers and starfish can go to hell but I can overlook it. the level it very tense and it makes the player think fast in a time they are suppose to. i also like the perks it comes with like the fast speeds and jumps you can do on this level and also with the steam. i also like that its not just about holding right but its about thinking as well.

Casino Street Act 2: Love this stage! It is to coloful and interactive. The music is also amazing to. I like how you can use the card trails to go to the levels. Also this level you win ALOT of prizes. Mostly because you can flip over card when you run by them and they can be lives or they can be rings. 

Casino Street Act 3: The barrels the cannons! Yeah! Love them! Awesome music and fast speeds? Love them to! Also a note you can do the barrels to make your own shortcuts (something only us skilled sonic 4 players know... just kidding)

The boss: Oh the fucking boss from Egg Station. That shit was hard as fuck. Lemmie tell you, this thing goes crazy when you hit it a few times. It trips! It stumbles! it shows emergency lasers and you can use its arm to beat it. This boss is awesome. I mean the background is amazing in this stage but the boss wow! This brings a thrill and suspense when I play.

As for Episode 2: 

The gameplay as cool! Tails was more than a follow me character, you can actually use him to help you through the game. He can pick you up and fly to high places making it easy to avoid water pits and go to tops of loops to get those +1 life boxes. Tails can also combine with your spindash make your spindash stronger breaking through those tough metal walls. Also when you are Super Sonic you can break from it by calling Tails to help you.

If I wanna be honest with you, the reason why I dont have much to say for Episode 2 is because theres something about this game that I am not getting like from Episode 1. For me Episode 1 has charms and things that make me want to replay it. Episode 2 has pretty worlds and Death Egg M2k is awesome level as fuck. Same with White Park Zone and racing and beating Metal Sonic. Playing as Metal Sonic was cool to mainly because I got to see Ep1's levels again in hard mode. (also Metal scaring off dancing animals was cool to)

The interactions with the levels arent there anymore like Episode 1. What makes the worlds awesome in that game isnt in this game and its a shame. It is. I mean zones like Syvania Castle were OK but it felt flat. Even worlds like White Park Zone, pretty background but no interactions no perks. Death Egg was the best zone and it got some the interaction from the level as well.

Also my main beef for the game is how you are forced to play with Tails. Like I say before I like using Tails to fly me over pits and stuff but when I have to be forced to use him it because fucking annoying. Im going to use a new phrase I learned, but it rustles my jimmies when I am running and I have a big ass TV screen floating to say "hey bitch, use Tails here". or worse in Oil Zone "yo bitch, use Tails or you die". I dont even get to play as Sonic by himself!!!! At least let me play with Sonic by himself.

I really think this game was about Tails. The way they sell the game makes me think it is about Tails. The gameplay is about Tails. You have to use him. Sonic isnt inpendent anymore. He cant use Tails when he WANTS to. 

But yeah I like this game but I dont at the same time.

Thoughts?

[Bad Guy]

I really enjoyed Sonic 4 ep 1 on my first playthrough. My favorite level was Casino Street Act 2 I think, the one with the road of cards.

I enjoyed ep 2 my first playthrough too, but having to use the team actions all the time really broke the flow I thought, because such a slow animation plays every time.

Episode Metal was such a great idea, but it was done so badly. Just 4 levels full of spikes for "added difficulty". It's the thought that counts I guess.

I'd be happy if we got an episode 3, there was a time when I was actually keeping my fingers crossed hoping we'd get it. It's okay though. I didn't enjoy these games as much on subsequent playthroughs. But like I said I loved them the first time around.

Here is a question, what does the m2k in your topic titles mean? I see it sometimes and I just don't know.

[Ripe]

Overall I think that Sonic 4 is quite solid and fun 2D Sonic game but there are some problems:

Ep1: Control is otherwise fine but the physics just feel wrong (I know that it's the most cliche critique about the game). Level desing is good most of the time but I don't really like about the fact that basically every zone is taken from previous games. Generations got away with it because it was the whole point but I think that with this game there was no excuse. Thankfully levels have unique gimmicks to make them different from each other. Bosses are most of the time very easy with the exception of the final boss which is even harder than the original fight in Sonic 2, at least there are rings. Special stages are again mostly rehashes of special stages in Sonic 1. I didn't like them there and I don't like them here either. Presentation is most of the time nice.

Ep2: Physics are much better and some other problems with controls were fixed. Tails was added but I think that there were some missed opportunities here with the whole tag system and overall it could had been handled much better. Also why can't I play as Tails in single player? It is possible in multiplayer but as I said before, good luck trying to find players in PSN in 2015. Maybe I should try with my PC if there are players. But because it is possible in multiplayer I think there is no excuse not to have Tails playable in singleplayer.

Now I got that addressed, let's move on other things with Ep2. I said that Ep1 had nice presentation. Is Ep2 better? Yes and no. Graphics are much better but music is worse. It's nice that the looks of the levels are slightly more unique than in Ep1 but is level desing good? It's quite hard to say. Special stages are this time rehashes of Sonic 2's which I hate and here they aren't that much better. Luckily I usually don't care about getting the emeralds (pretty much only games where I have cared about that are S3&K and Heroes). Bosses are not hard but they drag way too long (with the exeption of the Metal Sonic) and final boss is just annoying.

But overall I have huge problem with game: it's called Sonic 4 and it's suppose to be sequel to Sonic 3&K. And somehow there is much less content in the game than in its predecessor. There isn't even any lock-on feature which S3&K also had. Yes, you get the episode Metal but I would much rather be able to play as Sonic & Tails in Ep1 levels. I still think game(s) is good but it just lacks many things that Mega Drive and Advance games had. So even if game wasn't called Sonic 4 I would still think its seriously lacking with things.

But which episode is better? I say that episode 2. It's quite sad that ep3 was apparently cancelled because there would had been some potential.

[Salamander]

Here is a question, what does the m2k in your topic titles mean? I see it sometimes and I just don't know.

It's probably a corruption of Mark 2 (Mk2), indicating "second version."

[Haalyle]

I dunno, I prefer Episode 2 to be honest. It just... feels better to me. (Not that's I've finished either one because I become distracted with other games), but I always usually come back to Ep. 2 more than Ep. 1 (although, I do love coming back to the first stage in Ep. 1).

[Regen]

I think Sonic 4 was a disaster that shows just how incompetant the current SEGA team is.

The fact the game wasn't developed by Sonic Team is absolutely mind-blowing. Say what you want about the current skill of Sonic Team, but the fact SEGA got DIMPs to develop Sonic 4 is absolutely incredible. You would think a game that pulls so much from nostalgia would be developed by at least the team that designed the first three games. I know that most the talent has left Sonic Team, but it's still something that astounds me.

Then, we have the fact it's a low-budget mess with a clear lack of respect for the product from SEGA. You don't develop a sequel to one of the most important series of all time as a cheap Arcade title. The game was ugly as sin, even back then, and whilst they improved this in Episode 2 it's still a disgrace.

The whole product is just a lazily made knock-off that looks like it'll fall apart at any time. Piss-poor physics that affect the whole controls. I don't care that the physics aren't the same as the Genesis games, the physics are just flat out terrible. It's like playing a shooter with wonky gun controls. Unoriginal levels that are worse than the levels they are copied from. A complete lack of soul for the first Episode which creates a game that feels like cardboard. Absolutely horrendous music that, when it is good, is butchered with some of the worst sound production I have ever heard in a videogame. Recycled bosses from previous games that are worse than the bosses they are copied from. I could go on for fucking ever.

Episode 2 did make some improvements, but it's still a disaster because the game's also lazy as fuck, just like the first Episode, Super Sonic still has broken physics because they couldn't be bothered to fix him (or forgot which is even worse). The game has an ending that fizzles out because they axed Episode 3 and couldn't be bothered to make an ending. Tails has terrible flying mechanics when you use the Flying Combo Move but flies correctly when you play as him in Co-Op, so they obviously either didn't realise how terrible the Co-Op flying mechanics were because they couldn't be bothered to properly test it or did test it and couldn't be bothered to make the Combo Fly Move control like Co-Op Tails. The Special Stages are designed for Co-Op but they couldn't be bothered to finetune them for single player which make Special Stage 7 far too frustrating for a single player.

Sonic 4 is a fucking mess.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Regen

[Roger_van_der_weide]

I guess you can call them 2 and a half D because they have some 3D stuffs in the game as well. 

 

Pointless nitpick probably, but I'm always kinda annoyed when just using 3d graphics in an otherwise straightforward 2d game makes it a 2 and a half D game.
2d and 3d, to me, refers to how the gameplay is affected, not the aesthetic of the graphics. When I think of 2d and a half, i'm thinking more of Super Mario 3d land or the Lego (insert ranchise)  games, with 3d movement but with a 2d style locked Camera.
But whatever, pointless nerding.


Anyway, Sonic 4. I usually look at it more as a spiritual succesor to the Game gear games then the genesis ones, both mostly getting a "aww, they almost managed to be an actual Sonic game" reaction from me.
Of course with the Game Gear games that was more impressive considering the hardware, and they had better music, but whatever. When I look at Sonic 4 with that state of mind it's endearing and fun.

Weird thing is, when I played Sonic 4 for the first time, I remember having read it had the same level designers as Sonic 3 and knuckles did and Sonic 4 felt like it too. But replaying it years later, I disagree with my older self. Weird. Probably because Sonic 3 and Knuckles is more cinematic orientated and Sonic 4 more level gimmick orientated.

Anyway, Sonic 4 would have been neat to have on the 3ds or PS vita, it's a great Game Gear/ Advance esque Sonic game. But yeah, as the true succesor of Sonic 1-2-3? No. Too generic and not epic enough. And too much reliance on pace interupting gimmicks in Episode 2. Making Metal Sonic playable was a nice touch tough.

[Dizcrybe]

I maintain that if you don't think about the "classic" stuff Sonic 4 Ep. 2 is a solid 2D Sonic platformer.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Here's my play of MG 2 before my save file went bye bye and my lives were lost

[Regen]

I maintain that if you don't think about the "classic" stuff Sonic 4 Ep. 2 is a solid 2D Sonic platformer.

I know this a popular opinion with some fans, I often agree with these fans too, but I have to disagree here. Sonic 4 Ep 2 is actually a poor game with some glaring flaws. It's a lot better than the abysmal Episode 1, but it's below average in its own right. Note, in my humble opinion  

The game still has poor physics and doesn't have a good handling on momentum. It's better than the abysmal broken Episode 1, but it's not good either. It's not Sonic Advance level by any means. 

And this isn't about the game having physics 'exactly like the Classic games', it's just about having good physics. The controls are totally wonky because of how poor the physics are. It's like poor shooting mechanics in a FPS or poor pathfinding in a MOBA or Strategy Game. 

The game's combo moves are horribly implemented. The fact the game pauses for a second to start them up is bad enough but the way the rolling combo controls is finnicky and the way Tails flight controls operate is absolutely shoddy. I think they were going for Sonic Heroes flight control, but it actually worked better in Heroes shockingly enough. Since the game revolves around these gimmicky combo moves this a big problem.

The game has some dreadful music, such as the infamous Oil Ocean, and has some good music, like Vs Metal Sonic and Sky Fortress, that is ruined by terrible production. I would go as far as to say that Sonic 4 has the worst sound production of any game ever released.

The bosses are hit and miss. Some are good like the final boss and some, like the Sky Fortress and the Oil Ocean boss, are pretty mediocre and boring. 

The level design is dull and uninspired. The game often relies on the most lazy and boring level design know to man, flying through blank air:

Other than this the level design is never bad but it's never solid either. It doesn't hold a candlelight to Rayman Origins, Donkey Kong Country or even New Super Mario Bros. The levels are either automated rollercoasters that are so automated that they are just frustrating if you step one foot out of line and die (White Park 2) or serviceable enough levels but never exciting or innovative (Sylvania Castle). 

The Special Stages are also boring and badly executed. It doesn't help that it's not original and yet another recycled element from past Sonic games.

There's also just a general lock of polish and laziness. Super Sonic still has broken physics because they either forgot about him or couldn't be bothered to fix him, the game has no ending because Episode 3 was cancelled and, rather than make a new ending, they just decided to call it quits, the red rings serve no purpose whatsoever and Tails is only playable via Player 2 in Co-Op despite being a selling point of the game's marketing.

So, whilst the game is definitely better than the horrific Episode 1 I still think it's below par. It's far below the likes of Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush.

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Regen

[Short-Sleeved Nook]

Hey, awesome topic idea! I love the Sonic 4 games. They look nice, have catchy soundtracks, and just remind me of good times had both on console and on my iPod Touch way back! Actually, they remind me of the Sonic Advance games a little bit, and the experience those were, albeit much smaller scale due to being on mobile phones.

Episode 2 is my favorite, although I really like the nostalgic Genesis-like vibes of the original. It could've been done much better, of course, but they were enjoyable nonetheless. I for one want to see an ultimate version of Sonic 4 (Sonic 4 & knuckles, lol!) that combines everything together and adds new features like & Knuckles did to Sonic 3 (16-Bit mode? That would be sick!!). I rank Episode 2 higher than 1 because they were able to do a lot more with it (Tails, improved graphics, co-op, etc.), but also because I was able to experience the console version on launch day, which was exciting. For Episode 1, I got the mobile release on day 1 and it was a long time before I even touched the console version.

Sonic 4's biggest problem is the title: Sonic the Hedgehog 4. The game was always planned to be a mobile game, and I think that the title really draws fans away. As a direct sequel to Sonic 3, the game should've been way better than it actually was.

Physics and a couple of other small problems aside, they are fun games! Episode 2 was the first mainstream Sonic game to give us real 2P Co-op, and it was awesome! The new combo moves felt like puzzle elements however, which were welcome in some ways, but considering the kind of game Sonic is, it also felt out of place. but it was great to see Tails back in action! The new combo moves brought some originality to the game, and were definitely a fun idea, even if they weren't the greatest mechanic Sonic Team has ever introduced to 2D Sonic.

I dunno, I prefer Episode 2 to be honest. It just... feels better to me.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

I think Sonic 4 was a disaster that shows just how incompetant the current SEGA team is.

The fact the game wasn't developed by Sonic Team is absolutely mind-blowing. Say what you want about the current skill of Sonic Team, but the fact SEGA got DIMPs to develop Sonic 4 is absolutely incredible. You would think a game that pulls so much from nostalgia would be developed by at least the team that designed the first three games. I know that most the talent has left Sonic Team, but it's still something that astounds me.

Then, we have the fact it's a low-budget mess with a clear lack of respect for the product from SEGA. You don't develop a sequel to one of the most important series of all time as a cheap Arcade title. The game was ugly as sin, even back then, and whilst they improved this in Episode 2 it's still a disgrace.

The whole product is just a lazily made knock-off that looks like it'll fall apart at any time. Piss-poor physics that affect the whole controls. I don't care that the physics aren't the same as the Genesis games, the physics are just flat out terrible. It's like playing a shooter with wonky gun controls. Unoriginal levels that are worse than the levels they are copied from. A complete lack of soul for the first Episode which creates a game that feels like cardboard. Absolutely horrendous music that, when it is good, is butchered with some of the worst sound production I have ever heard in a videogame. Recycled bosses from previous games that are worse than the bosses they are copied from. I could go on for fucking ever.

Episode 2 did make some improvements, but it's still a disaster because the game's also lazy as fuck, just like the first Episode, Super Sonic still has broken physics because they couldn't be bothered to fix him (or forgot which is even worse). The game has an ending that fizzles out because they axed Episode 3 and couldn't be bothered to make an ending. Tails has terrible flying mechanics when you use the Flying Combo Move but flies correctly when you play as him in Co-Op, so they obviously either didn't realise how terrible the Co-Op flying mechanics were because they couldn't be bothered to properly test it or did test it and couldn't be bothered to make the Combo Fly Move control like Co-Op Tails. The Special Stages are designed for Co-Op but they couldn't be bothered to finetune them for single player which make Special Stage 7 far too frustrating for a single player.

Sonic 4 is a fucking mess.

Wow, you're making a TON of assumptions here... When I look at Episode 2, I don't see "lazy developers" at all: that game is gorgeous, and they made vast improvements to the game, considering they had less than 18 months to develop it and had to bring it to both mobile AND console. Your arguments pretty much prove my point that Sonic 4's biggest problem was the title of the game: expectations get blown through the roof for something was wasn't meant to be anything more than a classic-Sonic-styled mobile game!

The synth in Episode 1 does get a little irritating at times tho. I somewhat enjoy the different sounds of the Wii version's Casino Street Act 2:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/v1JgK7jdOa8

Edited October 30, 2015 by Short-Sleeved Nook

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Both games were amazing. I was disappoint while Episode 2 had beautiful worlds theres nothing to interact with like the first Episode. 

[Speeps]

I replayed Episode 1 the other day and aside from it being a total pain in the ass to collect all the emeralds there were a few things that stood out to me.

I liked how Act 1 of Mad Gear in particular punished you with crush deaths for being too reckless with Super Sonic, I felt having to watch out for the crushers that in act was a great way to keep up the difficulty of the zone despite having Super Sonic available to utterly destroy the rest of the game up to that point.

I also loved how if you collected all the emeralds as soon as possible in the normal level order the first time you can go Super Sonic is in Lost Labyrinth 2 - where going Super totally eliminates the problem of having your view obscured by darkness. I thought it was a pretty neat reward.

That said, the shading on Sonic is hideous in the Steam version. I played the Wii version years ago and it looked far better in that than in the PC version. The soundtrack in the Wii version was horribly dumbed down though.