Sonic Adventure 2 was a bad game

[Kiljoy]

First I would like to say that I played this o nthe Gamecube, not the Dreamcast, though my complaints are with the core gameplay, so I find it hard to believe the Dreamcast version could be that much better. My main problem is that only a third of the game is Sonic gameplay. You are constantly switching from the fun fast running stuff, do a crappy shooter where you just hold down the shoot button, and some REALLY bad treasure hunting levels. The camera was constantly a pain in the ass. The music was pretty good, fit in with the game, and the Sonic / Shadow levels ere genuinely fun, but their just weren't enough of them.

One thing I don't understand is how many people loved this game, but then criticized Unleashed for the werehog. To me SA2 was the same way, fun sonic levels, then slowed down boring levels.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Kiljoy

[Dr. Mechano]

The "crappy shooter" was my favorite part actually.

The Eggman stages, to me, were more fun than Sonic's stages. But then, I've never been crazy about Sonic's 3D gameplay to begin with.

Then, of course, there's the story- Which made an honest effort to focus on and develop everybody. Nowadays, good luck getting decent character development out of one person in a Sonic game. I loved its humanized and relaxed take on Eggman, and found it a genuinely fun and well-written game.

[SABRINA]

I'm gonna have to agree with you on the knuckles and rouge levels.

SA2 was what got me back into Sonic but like all games, it did have it's flaws.

I actually enjoyed some of the shooting levels myself. But there were some I could have done without.

Like Tails' "egg pyramid" level (think that's what it's called, it's right before Sonic's pyramid cave level).

Actually not that many people liked it at first. I remember EGM and other mags giving it 7's and 8's out of 10

and later moving up to 8.5 and 9 when the Gamecube one came out. The multiplayer addition was the cause of that.

But it just got bigger and bigger somehow or another. Plus you can't beat Jun Senoue's guitar work in the games. Like me, he is clearly stuck in the 80s.I can hear it in his style

[Erazor]

I'd have to agree. You'd think they would have stuck with the "choose your character idea" from the first Adventure but nope. You're forced to play as the crap characters.

The Sonic gameplay was fine and, at the time, Shadow was a pretty cool new rival for Sonic. The only thing I didn't like was the music in Sonic's stages. Apart from Crazy Gadget and Final Rush all of his music was cheesy rock crap. Shadow's music wasn't much better. It didn't help that he only got 4 stages.

Unlike the first game where playing as Knuckles added a new dimension of exploration to the stages you'd already played through as Sonic, Knuckles (and Rouge's) stages were solely designed fro treasure hunting. They were confusing, boring, and had terrible music. Not only did I not want to play as Rouge at all, but Sega made me cringe everytime I saw a new Knuckles stage approaching. That's right. Sega made me despise playing as one of my favorite characters in the series (which they would do again and again later).

The shooter gameplay was fine. I really liked playing as Gamma in the original Adventure and didn't really mind playing stages specially made for this type of gameplay. However, why the fuck is Tails in a walker? It seems like the only reason he was there was to balance out the teams. That would have been fine if he'd kept his gameplay from the previous Adventure, but instead they made him into a totally lame Eggman/Gamma clone. Don't get me wrong. His gameplay was good. But it's not Tails. They'd have been better off either cutting the levels or letting you play through them as Eggman. Also, surprisingly, these stages had the best music in the game.

Basically, out of the six characters I'm forced to play as, I could only tolerate 3. Unfortunatley, they only made up 1/2 of the game.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Erazor

[Kiljoy]

The problem with the shooting levels is the lack of depth. I just run through holding the fire button, then when the enemy showed up I let loose, then just kept going. No challenge to it.

[Dr. Mechano]

The problem with the shooting levels is the lack of depth. I just run through holding the fire button, then when the enemy showed up I let loose, then just kept going. No challenge to it.

The challenge, I find, derives from earning emblems and ranks. It takes a bit more skill than hold-and-fire to get all As, after all.

[speedfreak]

Yeah, I hated going from awesome Sonic to boring Tails and then awful Knuckles. It's the main reason I like SA1 better then SA2. At least SA1 allows me to do a game as Sonic only. I hate gameplay switching during a game......especially when most of the gameplay styles aren't very good. (<---Opinion!)

[SuperLink]

SA2 was good, but really not much better than games like Heroes or Unleashed (maybe even worse than the latter). Personally I think people enjoy it because they were younger when the played it and they have fond memories. If some external gamer came in and played both SA2 and Unleashed, which do you think they would prefer?

The only thing SA2 really has over other 3D Sonics is the Chao Garden.

[Flyboy Fox]

The most gameplay I got from SA2 was from multiplayer - many MANY hours here. The rest of the game, not so much.

Sonic's stages were awesome. I also really liked Knuckles' treasure hunting stages (yes, I'm in a minority, I know). Tails' stages bored the hell out of me and made me angry that he was confined to a mech for the entire game, playwise (with the exception of the Chao Garden), when he has two awesome tails that he can fly with and hit things with

I didn't bother with the dark story.

[Sean]

I didn't care for SA2 to the same extent I did for the original, and it's because the game lacks any incentive to utilize SA1's physics-based engine to the player's advantage. Characters are heavily restricted to the main path, and any shortcuts that are to be found are inconsequential. I also really hated the majority of space levels, and the music overall was a boringfest, and I can't think of many themes that I liked. It's probably the most tightly-designed Sonic game out there.

It's funny how Green Hill is actually the most open level in the game for exploration.

[Sion-Ta]

.: Pros :.

- Ignoring some dodgy controls and bland level designs (in comparison to other games at least), the core gameplay of Sonic and Shadow were still fun to play.

- Easily, the best plot ever written in a Sonic game. Introduced a refreshing darker theme, and started the first ever character arc in the series (though it did lead to Shadow…)

- Grinding; like it or not it has become as much as a stable in the Sonic franchise as the springs and the loops, and this was the first game to bring us it. A lot of my enjoyment in the game came from trying to keep a portion of the level by jumping to a rail below.

- Improved Chao Garden (if you enjoy raising them that is).

- Robotnik… Easily the best written character in the game. Honestly, everything about him in this game was the very definition of bad ass… He pointed a gun at Amy’s head, and nearly killed Sonic! Awesome~ >w<

.: Cons :.

- As mentioned above, the controls for the speed levels were very dodgy. While running forward, you always seemed to be moving the side a bit, and many of my deaths were a result of an unresponsive Homing Attack.

- Shooting levels… though they could be quite relieving at times… they could’ve also been much better designed from a hold down A and release-fest.

- Treasure Hunting levels… Much, much worse than the SA1 versions… whoever thought it’d be better for the radar to locate one emerald shard at a time should be shot. Levels were too big and empty for their own good.

- Racing levels… Never again…

- King Boo… I mean Boom Boo… BLAAAAAAAUGHHHHH~!

- Music... while in no way bad, it was a pretty weak soundtrack in comparison to other Sonic games… did all of Knuckles’ levels really need to start with the same line?

- Despite having the best plot… it was very poorly written. Most of Tails’ levels started out with him going ahead, which could’ve easily been cut out, and towards his final battle with Robotnik he went through the same character development as he did in SA1. Knuckles was another character who served nothing to the plot… infact, he was only there because Robotnik accidently came across the Master Emerald while searching for the Chaos Emeralds, and decided it couldn’t hurt to take it…

There are probably a lot more points I missed… but you get the point... still thought it was a decent game. ;;;

[BradAric]

The challenge, I find, derives from earning emblems and ranks. It takes a bit more skill than hold-and-fire to get all As, after all.

Absolutely. I have all A's, and I found that to be QUITE the challenge. I got A's first on the Treasure Hunting stages (some of my favorites, especially seeing as they had Knuckles <3) then Shadow's stages, then Sonic's, and finally Tails and Eggman's. Good times, but it took me forever. Oh, and raising the Chao was fun, but also took a long time to get one worthy of all the emblems so I could get Green Hill Zone...

[Sion-Ta]

*Clicks fingers* The ranking system! I knew I forgot another con... *Slinks away*

[Random Rhyme]

did all of Knuckles’ levels really need to start with the same line?

I loved Knuckles music. I would sometimes go to the soundtrack just to hear it. I did hate the shooting segment though and the treasure hunting got boring after awhile.

[Tombi]

Hmm, you know having the topic title be something completely subjective being stated as a fact doesn't really leave a lot of potential for debate, but I'll bite.

I can see where you're coming from when it comes to the non-Sonic levels, but as has already been shown in this topic; some people actually did like them; so that doesn't suddenly make it a bad game. I loved the speed and mech levels myself, but I could have done without the treasure hunting. Breaking news just in - Different Sonic fans like different things in their games!

I thought it was an above average game anyway. I do think there's a point to be made when certain people complain about recent elements like Werehog action and look to SA2 as some kind of shining example of a "non-gimmicked" 3D Sonic game or something, but I think that's the only real element of the "nostalgia filter" for this game.

EDIT: But yeah, Knuckles' music was awesome and it literally never let you forget it.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Tombi

[Flyboy Fox]

I adored Knuckles' rap tracks and I learned them all by heart. And completely pissed off my girlfriend by constantly reciting them High point of the game if you ask me.

All together now!

Echi-do-na, that's what I'm representing!

[Dr_Ultimate]

I have lots of respect for this game. I thought Sonic Adventure 2 was a brilliant game (and still is). I loved the level designs. I think the story in that game is epic. I loved all the characters. I thought they were all unique and interesting in their own way. I did enjoy the variation of the levels too. My favourite levels were the running levels, but I found the shooting and hunting levels to be good fun too. I thought the whole game just worked so well. The 2 player mode on the Gamecube version is absolutely brilliant.

[JezMM]

However, why the fuck is Tails in a walker? It seems like the only reason he was there was to balance out the teams.

That's exactly right. Originally only Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman were going to be playable, but due to fan demand to have Tails put in, they added him in and changed Shadow and Rouge into playable characters too and went with the Hero Vs Dark idea.

At least, such is my understanding.

Anyway, I love Sonic Adventure 2, including the non-Sonic stuff. The Sonic/Shadow levels are the best of it all to me, but I love the shooting, treasure hunting, hell even Kart racing too.

The only thing I disliked were that the Chao Garden wasn't optional for 100% completion. But I eventually managed it anyway. I liked the Chao Garden, but it just took too damn long to level up.

[Gamenerd]

Part of me loves Sonic Adventure 2, as it showed the best personification of long-time characters (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman), the best Chao Garden (well, that goes to SA2B actually, but whatever), and it had an awesome 2P mode (strictly talking about speed and shooting stages of course), as well as fun diversions that most newer games lack like the Boss Rush, and the Race minigame (although why Sonic needs a car is beyond me).

However a larger part of me hates it as the game that ruined Sonic. It's the game that said to the bigwigs at SEGA that it's okay to force filler content on us instead of letting us choose, and more to the point, allowed SEGA to get away with filler content that isn't even fast or fun. Aside from that, it introduced grinding, overuse of homing attack chains, generic uninteresting enemies, and Shadow. I'd also argue that this is the game that started the events that led to such atrocities as Sonic 2006, Sonic deviantart fanatics, ShadAmy fangirls, Sonic X and Sonic Hentai.

[Dr. Mechano]

That's exactly right. Originally only Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman were going to be playable, but due to fan demand to have Tails put in, they added him in and changed Shadow and Rouge into playable characters too and went with the Hero Vs Dark idea.

At least, such is my understanding.

Interesting. Sounds like Eggman was originally going to have a lot more focus than he did in the final product.

Ah, what could have been.

[Flyboy Fox]

That's exactly right. Originally only Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman were going to be playable, but due to fan demand to have Tails put in, they added him in and changed Shadow and Rouge into playable characters too and went with the Hero Vs Dark idea.

At least, such is my understanding.

That's really interesting. It might have been better that way.

Do you have a source on that, by the way? I didn't know that the fans had any input during the conception of the game.

[SuperLink]

Remember what happened with Sonic 2006 though? Fans complained when they heard it may be a "sonic 1 reimagining", so from the sounds of things they may have changed it completely, and added that pathetic amount of broken playable amigos.

[JezMM]

That's really interesting. It might have been better that way.

Do you have a source on that, by the way? I didn't know that the fans had any input during the conception of the game.

I heard this so long ago I can't remember the source, but I do definately remember watching like, the first ever trailer on Youtube, and it only showed off Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman as playable, as well as showing Shadow in an early version of a cut-scene (I think the one after City Escape's boss, but I may be totally wrong).

I'm sure SOMEONE here can back me up though. I only got into the modern series at SA2B so I found this out quite a while after.

[Diogenes]

I heard this so long ago I can't remember the source, but I do definately remember watching like, the first ever trailer on Youtube, and it only showed off Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman as playable, as well as showing Shadow in an early version of a cut-scene (I think the one after City Escape's boss, but I may be totally wrong).

That's certainly not proof that they're the only ones that were playable, tho'.

I've heard this rumor before, but I haven't seen any actual proof of it, so I've got no reason to believe it's anything more than just a baseless rumor.

[CreamyBagel]

The game did have it's cons but I really enjoyed it for the most part. I still love playing it because it's so much fun and the different challenges available on each stage meant you would be playing for hours. I didn't despise the shooting levels though I didn't love them either, although I loved the inclusion of the treasure hunting stages and the speed stages. I really enjoy seeking out pieces of the Master Emerald. I also like the idea of Hero vs. Dark because it was the first time you got to play as an antagonist which was a nice little change.

As for the plot, I thought it was very well done and had me on the edge of my seat by the final story mode. Like El Gran Gordo said all of the characters, even NPCs such as Doctor Gerald and Maria were given depth to them and explored quite a bit.