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Do people not like IDW now?


IHaveACaseOfSonicMania

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I'm gonna sound toxic, but I've seen that there seems to be more people showing their distaste for IDW Sonic. I dunno, maybe I'm just finding the crowds who don't like it.

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Nothing is truly perfect, and the longer IDW has run, some people are starting to see things they do not like. It also seems like most of the problems I've seen more people have with IDW are relating to current arcs more than the series as a whole.

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2 minutes ago, ChaosCTRL said:

Nothing is truly perfect, and the longer IDW has run, some people are starting to see things they do not like. It also seems like most of the problems I've seen more people have with IDW are relating to current arcs more than the series as a whole.

It just feels like the majority of people are disliking IDW now, it seems.

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I don't think I dislike it or anything, but I find the current arc less interesting than something like metal virus. But that's every manga and comic, right? Highs and lows.

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I'm not nearly as invested in the characters and story as I was with Archie. I gave it a few years because of course a new comic needs time to find its footing and build up its world, but we're about six years in now and it still feels...I dunno, bland? I know it's a different time than it was in the Archie days, but we're 70-ish issues in and I just feel bored with the IDW book.

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1 hour ago, IHaveACaseOfSonicMania said:

I'm gonna sound toxic, but I've seen that there seems to be more people showing their distaste for IDW Sonic. I dunno, maybe I'm just finding the crowds who don't like it.

It's not "toxic" to dislike something or discuss why you or others dislike something. The boundary into being mean has always been easy for me. The second the individual stops attacking the arguments and starts attacking the person, means they lost.

As for me, I've always been indifferent towards the comics. It's why I prefer them to be separate since most game stories always felt to be on a grander scale. But I haven't noticed any significant change or tone shift. I'm aware that Lanolin and her hard headed nature can rub people the wrong way. I was more annoyed at Jet being openly violent to Sonic during the race since he has always been very open in being against cheating. On the other hand, it could merely be a reference to how you can actually attack other racers in the game which isn't against the rules, per say. Although that theory can't work since Lanolin reprimands Jet.

Anyway, I'm overthinking things again.

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I generally agree that the book has just been stale for a while now. I gave the book time to fire up and after the metal virus it's just going off in meandering directions for me. Belle's taken a backseat, and Surge and Kit don't do anything for me. 

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I don’t think so, but I do have to admit that, yeah, after the Metal Virus and Urban Warfare, IDW has been rather bland and stale.

And we’re just 70-ish issues within.

I do expect this to change once we see what Ian has coming up. We might be in for some more energetic issues after the release of Sonic X Shadow Generations opens new avenues.

That said, for all the comparisons made toward Archie Sonic (which I still prefer to IDW), even back then there were bland and dull moments comparable to the drought of action and moments where characters weren’t themselves, so it’s not like this is unusual.

I’d say give it more time. It’ll pick back up with the action again.

Edited by CrownSlayers Shadow
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IDW Sonic is just going through a slump right now.  This is actually pretty natural for comic books in general.  I mean, Archie Sonic had a couple of slump periods itself and it still went on.  Now when the stories in IDW Sonic will pick up again remains to be seen.

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I complained a lot about early IDW or late Archie as well. I do find it easier to criticize than praise, something I'm trying to better at.

Plus I tend to have better opinions on 2nd read, once the whole story is published. Comics then to have a lot of "I can't judge this properly without next two issues showing the resolution" moments.

WITH THAT SAID

I feel like comic peaked during #50 and Scrapnik mini-series.
"Overpowered" was pretty good, but felt like 2nd climax, too fast after previous big fight with Surge.
"Urban Warfare" was a mess, too many characters, vague threat, just felt off.
Since then main "arc" just fails to hype. Mimic was incompetent, Surge recently lost twice in a row and Clutch's evil plan is... vague, but feels like selling stuff on black market, rather than actual threat to anyone we care for.

I think comic could live on smaller stories, but there were few duds in a row. 900th, Halloween, Cream's Dinner, whole Mimic mess. Fang mini pausing main book and few delays did not help. (God, I wish we had 2nd book. I think it would make everything so much better).

11 hours ago, Danj86 said:

It's not "toxic" to dislike something or discuss why you or others dislike something.

This.

Our forum veeery rarely seen 'toxic' behavior, usually quickly stopped. There is no throwing slurs at people we disagree or death threats toward IDW crew, just civilized discussions. And we're not "hate-reading", we're all rooting for book to wow us again.

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I never truly cared for it all that much since the beginning, and dropped it. Then later I gave it another chance and started to like it slightly more, only to drop it again. Last thing I read was issue 59.

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I basically bought the back issues because I discovered Dr. Starline on a wiki and absolutely HAD to read his character arc for myself. Now that he's out of the book, I'm not sure if I'm going to go much further in picking up the compilations, because the quality of the series has always seemed spotty to me.

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BTW, I hate to pick on her, but is it possible that lower quality has something to do with Evan Stanley being the main writer?

She's a lovely person, great artist and has real talent for small character moments. But most of her bigger stories...

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My own experience with the IDW series is kind of spotty, because aside from a few scattered issues, I've never really thoroughly read it because I wasn't interested in it. From what I did read though, it just seemed like there was way too much focus on Flynn's "OC characters" in comparison to the actual main Sonic cast. If I'm going to read a Sonic comic, I want to read about the adventures of Sonic, Tails, Shadow, and the others characters we've known and loved over the years, not the melodrama between Tangle, Whisper, and some beetle lady nobody cares about. The few times I did bother to dip into the IDW comics, it seemed that's constantly all there was, so they never drew me in. I'm pretty sure the over-focus on the OC characters is a complaint a lot of critics of the IDW series have, and it seems like a valid criticism to me, if only speaking for myself. 

Of course, the OC-overemphasis problem is far from the only issue fans have with the IDW comics. Another issue people have had with the series right from the start is how the main cast are portrayed even when they are finally being the focus of the story. Among the complaints people have had are how Sonic acts almost more like some selfish sociopath who values his personal ideas about "freedom" more than the wellbeing of everyone else, like how he handled the whole Mr. Tinker situation, and just as infamously, how Shadow uncharacteristically acts like a complete buffoon during the metal virus arc just so the writers had an excuse to take him out of the picture early. This constant poor and inaccurate representation of the Sonic characters that disgruntled readers believe is in the IDW comics has been a major turnoff and source of controversy right from the beginning from what I can see. 

That being said, I think there has always been a lot of people who disliked the IDW comics for a variety of reasons, and the reasons I gave above are just a handful of them. It's difficult to measure exactly what percentage of the Sonic fanbase dislikes the IDW series when all you have to go off of are videos and blogposts you find around the Sonic fandom corners of the web that talk about these topics.  But I'm pretty sure there have always been detractors, and based on the number of comments here that are admitting that the series is just bland, it's possible that the number of Sonic fans falling out of love with the IDW series (if they liked it all to begin with) could be growing. I'll say this much: the IDW company has been facing financial trouble for some time now, and while I don't know if a failing Sonic comic series is one of the culprits, nothing about this exactly suggests IDW has been selling millions of copies and is raking in loads of cash from people buying it.

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You know, I’m really curious and have to ask about why people rag on the OCs of the comics when the games do the exact same thing?

Seriously, more than a decade ago—on these very forums (look it up, we have topics stretching back to 2009 where you can see people doing this, and you WILL find me involved in a number of them…hell just go through my post history starting on the first page)—it was Shadow (most especially out of all of them), Rouge, Cream, and anyone who wasn’t around during the Genesis games who were treated as OCs getting too much focus and raged on by Classic fans as useless characters before Sonic 4, Generations, and then Mania came into the fold. If you were a fan of the modern games and its cast, then you know full well this is true of how they were treated just like this back in the early days.

Then even when Archie was going on since the 90s, before Amy, Knuckles, and even Metal Sonic were on the drawing board, people treated legacy characters in this manner.

Our most recent new character, Trip, is from the games, not the comics. And while I haven’t played Superstars, I know the game is more focused about her than the characters who came before. (But feel free to correct me, because I haven’t played the game, seen the cutscenes, and barely even read the wiki, so I know I don’t have the full picture)

So what is really with this grievance against new characters from the comics? I’m genuinely curious, because none of my favorite characters are from IDW (only one I really like out of all of them is Whisper, and she’s still low on my list favorites), and having read up to Urban Warfare it’s not like we don’t get our fix of the game cast alongside the ones in the comic. They share it with the game characters and pull their own weight—if they didn’t, folks would then complain about them being useless and pointless characters like they did out of spite with the Modern cast for the better part of a decade post-2006. It not like Sonic, Tails, Amy, and any other characters from the games aren’t in the action when we have the OC characters around in the issues.

Edited by CrownSlayers Shadow
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To be fair IDW has much more freedom with their OCs than Sega Cast. They can grow, change occupations or even die, when Sega cast is frozen in place by law. And from my experience people loved most OC. Surge was adored even before her official debut (good think she lived up to the hype).

I was mostly happy with time division up to formation of Neo Diamond Cutters. That gives them too much focus for my taste.

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2 hours ago, CrownSlayers Shadow said:

You know, I’m really curious and have to ask about why people rag on the OCs of the comics when the games do the exact same thing?

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. It's hard to compare a past discussion with a current one unless the same people are involved. Because, well...I personally disagree with the past points mentioned.

The "OCs" in question, were new characters and the narrative was heavily surrounding them. Although not playable, Chaos was the main focus in Sonic Adventure. In Adventure 2 it was Shadow while in Heroes, the focus was equal between teams until Metal Sonic showed up.

I think Shadow is possibly the only character that could've been accused of getting too much focus and that primarily stems from his own title. I certainly never believed Cream would get accused of such a thing. Hell, having her be important to the plot of Sonic Dream Team seemed more like a way to reintroduce a character that hadn't been seen in years. Which was a wise move in my opinion. Not everyone will read the comics so a good number of players would possibly not even know who she is.

It's been discussed before regarding Sonic as a character and I feel like that might be why he is never the focus in a story. Usually just trying to stop whatever bad thing is going down. He's a static character that does not need to go through an arc. He is more like the glue that keeps it all together. That approach wont be for everyone, but I rather like having an easygoing protagonist who is just going with the flow. Kirby and Mario are similar in that way.

So I guess my point is, the new guys always get more attention and it's supposed to be that way for the purpose of telling a new story with new lore. Sonic Colours brought in the Wisps, Sonic Lost World poorly introduced the Zeti, Sonic Forces poorly introduced Infinite.

Edited by Danj86
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2 hours ago, Danj86 said:

'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. It's hard to compare a past discussion with a current one unless the same people are involved.

No it isn’t. And I would know having been there in the past that I could name a good number of the members off the top of my head who did this (I’m not going to name them out in the open, because that’s petty and rude when they’ve not been active on these forums for years, but I still remember a some of the vocal ones).


If you take the current discussion about the OCs of the comic and switch them out with characters like Shadow, Cream, Rouge, and almost every character that wasn’t in the classics, you would have the exact same discussion that was made in the past that X new characters are getting focus over the older Y characters. Prior to the IDW cast, it was characters like Shadow, Cream, Silver, etc getting attention or being seen as useless (which was definitely what people said about Cream despite her not appearing often or as prominent, as I made a Character Jihad topic calling that out accusation specifically for Cream simply being able to fly like Tails and got into an argument with a member over that very discussion point), and now decades later it’s the IDW OCs.

It doesn’t need to be the exact same people making it (tho I doubt they’d prove any different today either)—it’s literally the same cyclic argument made against new characters like the ones that came before. That’s what I’m saying, and you’re welcome to verify it in the more ancient topics of this forum.

If the forums didn’t have a sever wipe back in 08-09, you could verify this stretching back to 2004.

The only character I know for sure was spared this treatment was Blaze the Cat, but everyone else got the type of flak in the past that the IDW cast seems to be having today. It’s a complete repeat of history.

Edited by CrownSlayers Shadow
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1 hour ago, CrownSlayers Shadow said:

If you take the current discussion about the OCs of the comic and switch them out with characters like Shadow, Cream, Rouge, and almost every character that wasn’t in the classics, you would have the exact same discussion that was made in the past that X new characters are getting focus over the older Y characters. Prior to the IDW cast, it was characters like Shadow, Cream, Silver, etc getting attention or being seen as useless (which was definitely what people said about Cream despite her not appearing often or as prominent, as I made a Character Jihad topic calling that out accusation specifically for Cream simply being able to fly like Tails and got into an argument with a member over that very discussion point), and now decades later it’s the IDW OCs.

It doesn’t need to be the exact same people making it (tho I doubt they’d prove any different today either)—it’s literally the same cyclic argument made against new characters like the ones that came before. That’s what I’m saying, and you’re welcome to verify it in the more ancient topics of this forum.

Oh. I think I'm following it now, you're talking about the modern and classic divide before Generations properly acknowledged the past. Yeah, I wanted to see classic characters back then, return. But is that really the same thing?

I can only speak for myself and my motivation was wanting to see the classic characters get further developed like Team Chaotix did. The characters like Mighty and Ray never got the opportunity to shine for a modern audience. Keep in mind, I grew up not reading the Archie comics so that aspect is irrelevant in my own personal example.

Because of my previous mention of how new characters get the story focus, that unfortunately means the fans that wish for the classics to return, will harbour resentment towards the new characters. Now, while I can't know this myself, this does give the impression that the playable cast is limited, which is another reason why classic fans felt resentment towards newer characters.

With the classic series being continued separately and certain characters are locked to each version, that feeling of a roster slot being taken from another has been somewhat mitigated. Especially with Mighty, Ray, Fang, Bean and Bark all appearing in newer games. So you could say, that particular issue no longer exists. It was replaced with a new one, but that is nether here nor there...

So, now that I understand the points being made, do I think the current discussion is the same as those? Yes and no. Simply because wanting already established characters to return in an updated form means they already exist. They had untapped potential. The IDW OCs are different. They don't have the history, they are established in a comic that only a small portion of the fandom bothers to read. They're supposed to be supporting characters. While I couldn't be sure if, say, Team Chaotix prevented Mighty and Ray being in Sonic Heroes, I can be more certain that the focus on Team OC means less time for the established characters to shine.

So in that sense, this issue and the past one are actually the same. As in, from how it looks to me, personally, the OCs are being ragged on like the new characters did in the past, for the same reason. It can be perceived that the time spent on those characters, could've also been used on other characters that some believe are better.

Boy, I spent more time than I meant to on what only amounts to a theory that I can partially relate too.

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This might be a bit off topic, but how do people feel about the comic book industry nowadays?  I know that the comic book industry isn't quite as popular as it was from years ago.  But, do you think that the reason why a lot of people don't read the Sonic IDW comics is because a lot of people aren't interested in reading comic books in general these days?

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  Personally I enjoy the comic well enough for what it is.  It's not as fun, unique, or creative as the Archie Sonic comics I grew-up reading, but that's more SEGA and their silly mandates fault more than anyone else's.  But given what the writers and artists have to work with they're doing the best they can which I respect.  I kinda hated the metal virus storyline, just not a fan of Zombie stories.  But everything before and after that has been entertaining enough, for me anyway.

 

 As for the characters I love the way Amy is written in the comics, she seems like a much better, more well rounded character.  I also enjoy Blaze, Silver, The Chaotix, Cream & Vanilla, Rouge, Tails, and Sonic of Course.  And I love the Original Characters like Tangle, Whisper, Lanolin, Surge & Kit, etc.

I'm kinda disappointed Knuckles doesn't seem to be as important in the comics as he was in Archie, but he's still well written when he does show up.

 

  The biggest disappointment for me is Shadow.  He's just more of a plot device then an actual character when he shows up.  But again I realize that's 100% SEGA's fault.  So I don't blame Ian or Evan, as they're both hard working individuals just doing the best they can with what they were given.

 

 But at the end of the day while the IDW comics may play it way too safe, mostly because they have no choice but to do so, they're entertaining for what they are and I'm glad they exist, even if I still really miss Archie Sonic and the Freedom Fighters.  It's just nice to have a Sonic comic on the market.

15 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

This might be a bit off topic, but how do people feel about the comic book industry nowadays?  I know that the comic book industry isn't quite as popular as it was from years ago.  But, do you think that the reason why a lot of people don't read the Sonic IDW comics is because a lot of people aren't interested in reading comic books in general these days?

  As a long time comic reader, I can honestly say comics are arguably better than ever!   As for people not reading them, I think that has more to do with, at least in America being in a culture that doesn't respect and sometimes even demonizes things like intelligence and reading.  When kids are bullied for loving books or seeing books in libraries being banned for no good reason.  It just makes it hard to get them or people in general interested in reading these days.  I hope things change soon because literacy, critical thinking and having an open mind are important!  But yeah, as long as books and comics are under attack here.  It'll be hard to get new readers. 😞

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1 hour ago, Danj86 said:

Oh. I think I'm following it now, you're talking about the modern and classic divide before Generations properly acknowledged the past. Yeah, I wanted to see classic characters back then, return. But is that really the same thing?

It’s not the Classic and Modern divide, or rather it isn’t just that.

It’s comic exclusive characters and those that are in the games. There was a mention of irritation over the OCs getting attention despite them starring in the comic alongside the game cast—this would be the equivalent of Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic being in the same game, but people still complaining that Modern Sonic is even sharing the spotlight. That’s more of what I’m equating here.

1 hour ago, Danj86 said:

So, now that I understand the points being made, do I think the current discussion is the same as those? Yes and no. Simply because wanting already established characters to return in an updated form means they already exist. They had untapped potential. The IDW OCs are different. They don't have the history, they are established in a comic that only a small portion of the fandom bothers to read. They're supposed to be supporting characters. While I couldn't be sure if, say, Team Chaotix prevented Mighty and Ray being in Sonic Heroes, I can be more certain that the focus on Team OC means less time for the established characters to shine.

So in that sense, this issue and the past one are actually the same. As in, from how it looks to me, personally, the OCs are being ragged on like the new characters did in the past, for the same reason. It can be perceived that the time spent on those characters, could've also been used on other characters that some believe are better.

Okay, but here’s the thing: at this point, you now have that. You have the characters that have already been established. They’re not forgotten and you still have that history…only now you have other OCs coming along for the ride. 

Basically, the established characters aren’t going anywhere, but because the OCs are tagging along with them, that’s a problem to some.

Now it’s a bit over-generalized, because their are some legitimate cases where the irritation is understandable—cases like Lanolin being rather bitchy in character rubs people the wrong way, so it’s not like the dislike toward her individually is without reason.

But overall, the OCs don’t have the same level of history by virtue of being more recent by comparison. Despite that, you see them in action with characters that do have an established history. Where exactly is the problem here with that? 

I reiterate that the IDW cast of OCs isn’t my favorite, but I’m not irritated at groups like the Diamond Cutter sharing the action with groups like Team Sonic or the Babylong Rogues in an arc. So what’s really the issue with that? Because otherwise, this is just a repeat of the same thing characters who are the game cast went through, and I feel people who were irritated when their favorite characters suffered that backlash should know better than to repeat that nonsense with the next generation of characters since they were once in that very same boat before.

Basically, the OCs aren’t hogging the spotlight just because they’re in the same issues as the game characters.

Edited by CrownSlayers Shadow
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With regards to the IDW original characters, I guess it would help if we could have more stories of them teaming up with certain game characters, and stuff of that nature. Because, as one of my friends pointed out, the IDW characters have been written in a way that mostly isolates them from the rest of the game cast. Like, when Tangle features in a given story, nine times out of ten she's going to be grouped up with Whisper or Belle (and now, Lanolin), which then becomes the B-plot to the story while the game characters are doing their own thing in the A-plot. There have certainly been exceptions but, at least from what I've seen, it's not enough to make the IDW heroes feel very integrated with the rest of the cast.

Granted, this is a problem with the game characters too; when Tails is featured in a story, it's always to be paired with Sonic. Rouge and especially Omega pretty much need Shadow as a prerequisite to be involved in a story, with the Annuals and Winter Jam being exceptions. And as I've complained about before, Cream can't seem to appear in a story without Gemerl tagging along and taking up her interactions/scenes. Again, with the Annuals and Winter Jam being exceptions. But we can't keep having the once-a-year one-shot issues being the only times we see these characters break away from their usual dynamics. Surely the monthly, mainline issues could have Gemerl stay with Vanilla while Cream goes on an adventure with Amy. Or have Rouge go on a race for treasure against Knuckles, with or without the Babylon Rogues as well. Or indeed, have Tangle take a break from Restoration business and do something fun with one of the game characters.

And that is exactly what the comic characters could use; have them take a break from each other and do things with the game characters, particularly those who don't much limelight. Metal Virus had Whisper share a compelling moment with Cream, perhaps we could have those two team-up for a story and see more of this dynamic? Whisper also has a major vendetta against Eggman, just like Omega. Maybe we could have story of those two going on a rampage together against the doctor? Likewise, both Tangle and Charmy are hyperactive and scatterbrained individuals, easily the most of all the characters. They would absolutely group up for some wacky hi-jinx. Not sure what kind of stories could be had between Jewel, Belle, and Lanolin with any of the game characters, admittedly. But doing these kind of stories, no matter how small or large, ought to help.

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I mean, there is that moment where Silver and Whisper teamed up to try and flush out Mimic/Duo before Lanolin went full bitch at Silver when their attempt failed.

And Surge interacting with Amy at the Restoration.

And let’s not forget Belle interacting with Tails in small moments like helping to repair Whisper’s Variable Wisp-on.

Or heck, Cream and Amy going along with Rouge for the Chao Race, using Omega’s head to spy on Clutch.

I’m all in favor of a mixed interaction of characters—lord knows it would be something to see a combination like Whisper and Shadow and seeing how they would work as a pair to accomplish a mission together. But if we’re gonna hold a magnifying glass over which of the characters getting focus, we should apply that to the full cast, game and comic OCs.

As much as I’m finding the to be boring and stale as of right now like everyone else is, the problem isn’t the OCs. It’s the story in general—the story is what’s boring us because it’s not exciting enough. If you take out or reduce the attention of OCs to focus on the game cast, you’d still have the same problem of a boring story, just like how we learned that taking out the extended game cast from the games after Sonic 06 didn’t solve the problems there either and we got whole new ones along with it.

So the real solution is to make the story interesting, not reduce the spotlight of the OCs. Because let me tell you: I was pretty bored as hell with the Chao Race arc after the Metal Virus, and that was focused primarily on the game cast.

Edited by CrownSlayers Shadow
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A prevalent complaint I've always seen about the IDW comics is about Sonic's characterization in them. I personally have no issue with it - keep in mind that this is a comic book; not a game, or a show, or a movie. Generally, my mindset when it comes to the ideal characterization for Sonic is "show, don't tell." Sonic has hardly ever been shown to give long-winded speeches about what motivates him before beating up villains in the games, he usually just acts - yet he behaves the opposite way in the IDW comics. But in this case, I'm fine with it. Because it's a comic book

A lot of people overlook the fact that different mediums have their own strengths and weaknesses - and the greatest strength of a comic book is its words (I mean, come on, it's a comic "book" for a reason). Comics lack the depth that a lot of other media possesses: unlike most film and games, comic books don't have voice acting to help convey the emotions of a character, nor do they have dynamic cutscenes to help set the mood of a scene. Comics, and really books in general, are a much more primitive (for lack of a better word) medium compared to the other digital means we have access to these days. The IDW comics have to use their greatest strength: words. They really have no choice but to. Many people seem to forget that when criticizing these comics.

No, I don't think the IDW comics are flawless by any means. They have a handful of issues that I could touch on. But this is a commonly recurring criticism about them that I keep hearing that I think is unfair.

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