Does Amy qualify as the fourth member of Team Sonic?

[EzSonic01]

So, I thought this would be a nice question to ask. Team Sonic (or Heroes, according to most recent entries) is the main trio of the series, composed by Sonic himself and his closest friends and allies through the franchise, Tails and Knuckles (also a rival), who had teamed up before their official debut as well. Many times, they have also worked together in the TV shows and comics that all three characters appear in.

However, specially in the later games, Amy has also been shown closer to them too, being a main character and having been present in all canon timelines: classic, modern, and also Boom. She's also the only female. While Amy has her own group with Cream and Big, they do not appear together often or even interact much with each other anymore at all. In some occasions, Amy has even filled the third member position for Knuckles when he's not there.

So, what are your thoughts on this? To me, Amy indeed qualifies as a member, even though I just prefer the three boys, it does make sense to include Amy to the team, as her official group hasn't appeared in a while, and the rest of the teams (such as Dark and Chaotix) being still all intact and complete as they were back in Sonic Heroes.

[Red Hot Jack]

I hope so, I really prefer the four of them, Team Sonic in Heroes is just for gameplay purposes, I mean, in the story Amy appeared in a lot of Team Sonic's cutscenes, plus in SA1 and SA2 she spends more time with Sonic and Tails than Knuckles does.

[JezMM]

Honestly I'd say Amy makes more sense as the THIRD member of Team Sonic than Knuckles does, and I enjoyed Unleashed avoiding the brute-forcing of Knuckles into the plot.  The guy's a loner and has his own lore reasons for not hanging out with Sonic all the time.  Meanwhile Amy has slowly developed from fangirl to one of Sonic's closest and most trusted friends, and is a "slow but strong" character to compliment Sonic's speed and Tails' smarts/flying.

I'd like to see the opportunity for the three of them to interact more closely with one another akin to Team Dark and Team Chaotix's interactions, and for Knuckles to maybe get a chance to have a more lonely story again, tricky as that'd be to write with all his lore baggage.

[Wraith]

I think Amy rounds the group out a lot and it's a shame she's not considered an equal to Sonic/Tails/Knuckles. Really hope someone gets a playable classic version of her going so there's no reason to exclude her from stuff like Sonic Mania. I consider them a team of 4 personally.

I even agree with Jez in that it makes more sense for Amy to hang around Sonic than it does Knuckles, but I don't really want to leave Knuckles out either. I like the dynamic the 4 have in the Mega Drive comics

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Yes.

What? Brevity is a soul of the wit.

[Dash Speed]

26 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Honestly I'd say Amy makes more sense as the THIRD member of Team Sonic than Knuckles does, and I enjoyed Unleashed avoiding the brute-forcing of Knuckles into the plot.  The guy's a loner and has his own lore reasons for not hanging out with Sonic all the time.  Meanwhile Amy has slowly developed from fangirl to one of Sonic's closest and most trusted friends, and is a "slow but strong" character to compliment Sonic's speed and Tails' smarts/flying.

I'd like to see the opportunity for the three of them to interact more closely with one another akin to Team Dark and Team Chaotix's interactions, and for Knuckles to maybe get a chance to have a more lonely story again, tricky as that'd be to write with all his lore baggage.

Sonic and Knuckles have a main friendship/bro rivalry with each other, thats why he's number three. He's Sonic's best friend in a fight against eggman along with Tails. Amy is still established as Sonic fangirl and self promoting love interest, she forces herself on to the trio. Knux being lonely was obviously a minor aspect about him, it didn't stop him being a world reknown treasure hunter like rouge or sonic and tails the guy they hang out with the most. Shadow is the quintessential loner of the series to me. Knuckles has never expressed liking solitude and being distant from everyone like Shadow has, Knuckles has expressed feelings of hating it and being envies of Sonic because of it.

[Diogenes]

There's certainly no character with more of a claim to member #4 than her, at least. She's a classic era character, she's had a consistent presence in the series since SA, she was the fourth playable character in Advance 1 (Sonic 4 before we had Sonic 4 (or Mania)), she's appeared fairly consistently in the modern era even in games with limited casts (she missed out on Colors but so did Knuckles, and she made it into Unleashed even though he didn't), and she's explicitly a member of the Boomverse's Team Sonic.

The real question is to what extent "Team Sonic" is even a thing anymore. Sonic still hangs with Tails almost constantly, but Knuckles has been pushed back a bit compared to the era of "everyone is a speed, flight, or power type". If Team Sonic is still a thing, I'd say Amy is as justified to be a part of it as Knuckles is, but it's possible they've moved on from that idea to something more like "Sonic, his sidekick Tails, and sometimes various other friends".

[Dash Speed]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

There's certainly no character with more of a claim to member #4 than her, at least. She's a classic era character, she's had a consistent presence in the series since SA, she was the fourth playable character in Advance 1 (Sonic 4 before we had Sonic 4 (or Mania)), she's appeared fairly consistently in the modern era even in games with limited casts (she missed out on Colors but so did Knuckles, and she made it into Unleashed even though he didn't), and she's explicitly a member of the Boomverse's Team Sonic.

The real question is to what extent "Team Sonic" is even a thing anymore. Sonic still hangs with Tails almost constantly, but Knuckles has been pushed back a bit compared to the era of "everyone is a speed, flight, or power type". If Team Sonic is still a thing, I'd say Amy is as justified to be a part of it as Knuckles is, but it's possible they've moved on from that idea to something more like "Sonic, his sidekick Tails, and sometimes various other friends".

Cuz Knuckles is a more powerful character in battle than Amy and has the skill to match Sonic and Tails superhuman traits. The worlds fastest hedgehog, the worlds smartest fox, and the worlds strongest echidna makes more a impression than the worlds most normal female hammer using hedgehog.

[KittyNakajima]

Of course she does! Many of the game titles post Sonic Adventure have shown her steadily but surely coming into her own. While some of those moments might be a bit Flanderized (looking at you Heroes!Amy!), she's proven to be a strong support character who can hold her own. Moreso than say Shadow, who's either out on his own or doing G.U.N. missions with Rouge or Omega, or Knuckles who should usually on Angel Island guarding the Master Emerald.

 

[Dash Speed]

1 minute ago, KittyNakajima said:

Of course she does! Many of the game titles post Sonic Adventure have shown her steadily but surely coming into her own. While some of those moments might be a bit Flanderized (looking at you Heroes!Amy!), she's proven to be a strong support character who can hold her own. Moreso than say Shadow, who's either out on his own or doing G.U.N. missions with Rouge or Omega, or Knuckles who should usually on Angel Island guarding the Master Emerald.

 

What do you mean, Shadow doesn't need Rouge or Omega and Knuckles should know the planets safety is more vital than his island which he knows is in dangers anyways.

[KittyNakajima]

1 minute ago, Dash Speed said:

What do you mean, Shadow doesn't need Rouge or Omega and Knuckles should know the planets safety is more vital than his island which he knows is in dangers anyways.

Seems you need a bit of clarification. I never meant that Shadow doesn't need Rouge & Omega. They're all kind of not the norm in their own special way - i.e. jewel thief/secret agent spy, sentient robot with a vendetta against its creator, and an immortal being capable of raising all hell. I'm pretty sure they bonded over that and then some during the Heroes storyline and after.

While they will ally with Sonic for a common goal, it usually serious. Eggman taking over most of the world in Forces. Or, through no fault of their own, a common issue overlapping their paths - like Mephiles/Iblis in '06.

Same goes for Knuckles as well in the modern titles. He's either minding his own business or taking a break from his duties to engage the others or deal with a situation.

[EzSonic01]

1 hour ago, Dash Speed said:

Sonic and Knuckles have a main friendship/bro rivalry with each other, thats why he's number three. He's Sonic's best friend in a fight against eggman along with Tails. Amy is still established as Sonic fangirl and self promoting love interest, she forces herself on to the trio. Knux being lonely was obviously a minor aspect about him, it didn't stop him being a world reknown treasure hunter like rouge or sonic and tails the guy they hang out with the most. Shadow is the quintessential loner of the series to me. Knuckles has never expressed liking solitude and being distant from everyone like Shadow has, Knuckles has expressed feelings of hating it and being envies of Sonic because of it.

Yes, this is a somewhat ignored aspect of Knuckles, and it's been implied he's jealous of Sonic's easy-going nature in games such as Sonic Heroes. Also he's a loner but not by choice, and generally goes on adventures with Sonic when he sees the opportunity. That's why I like Knuckles being the third member more than Amy, Knuckles is one of Sonic and Tails' best and oldest friends around, but he's not glued to them either. It's not the same to say Sonic, Tails & Knuckles as Sonic, Tails & Amy, really, but I'm certainly not against Amy being in the team either, just not replacing Knuckles because it's simply not the same without him.

@KittyNakajima Shadow does not need a team though, and I really don't understand the dynamics he, Rouge and Omega have.

[Shadowlax]

I would rather everyone be just them, but for all intents and purposes, yes

[Kuzu]

I mean, Sega/Sonic Team certainly promote her as such in marketing and promotion and she's generally the only other character you can expect to appear just behind Tails and Knuckles. So yea, she's the de facto fourth member if nothing else.

But like Dio said, they pretty much have moved on from the team dynamics from before and just mainly focus on Sonic & Tails as a duo nowadays, while Knuckles & Amy are just mostly lumped in with every other character...i.e. they're treated as unimportant :V

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Cuz Knuckles is a more powerful character in battle than Amy and has the skill to match Sonic and Tails superhuman traits. The worlds fastest hedgehog, the worlds smartest fox, and the worlds strongest echidna makes more sense than the worlds most normal female hammer using hedgehog.

That's really not what matters, though. This isn't about assembling the most powerful team, it's about characters that can work together, can trust each other, and can interact in interesting ways. That Amy doesn't have superpowers or whatever doesn't mean she can't be an important part of the team.

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Diogenes said:

That's really not what matters, though. This isn't about assembling the most powerful team, it's about characters that can work together, can trust each other, and can interact in interesting ways. That Amy doesn't have superpowers or whatever doesn't mean she can't be an important part of the team.

i would make the argument she doesn't really contribute much besides occasionally interesting interactions. I would then argue that that doesn't really merit being a team, that just merits " He you should hang out some time" 

I feel the same way about team dark. Rouge and Shadow interactions are neat but, Team dark shouldn't be a thing

[Kuzu]

2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

i would make the argument she doesn't really contribute much besides occasionally interesting interactions. I would then argue that that doesn't really merit being a team, that just merits " He you should hang out some time" 

I feel the same way about team dark. Rouge and Shadow interactions are neat but, Team dark shouldn't be a thing

If you have a large group of characters who associate with each other a lot, having interesting dynamics and interactions is a bit more important than who can do what. Not that utility isn't important, but so is actually having a relationship the audience should care about.

Yea, Amy is probably the least skilled between her, Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles but having her around opens them to a lot of interesting interactions because of it.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

If you have a large group of characters who associate with each other a lot, having interesting dynamics and interactions is a bit more important than who can do what. Not that utility isn't important, but so is actually having a relationship the audience should care about.

I feel like both of those things are important. Sonic isn't a slice of life series where we are just hanging out , its an action adventure series. And even with super hero team dynamics, usually each member of the team while interacting with another member contributes something unique that not only allows them to be an interesting character allows them to stand on their own.Even if its a different perspective on matters. And  even in consideration I don't think amy offer's that different of a perspective, when they are going out adventuring and such. 

Character interactions are great, but if I wanna see two characters just talk and hang out, there are plenty of non action comics to read. this is an action comic. Things occur, characters do things, and if a character is on a team they need to be doing a thing. And if they aren't doing anything it makes them not care about that character. 

Why do you think people made fun of an didn't like aquaman for all these years, because he was perceived to have very little use and be useless besides " talking to fish" . When the audience perceives a member of the team to be useless they start to care about them less when doing group casts. To use a marvel example, its why so many people don't seem to care to much about quint , he shoots arrows. I care about quint, I read the comics, but in terms ofthe general audience, "he's the arrow dude who cares he's probably gonna die in infinity war because who cares" is the general sentiment. 

If the audience doesn't perceive a character to be of use in any regard, they are wondering why this character is taking up screen time. Heck new star wars a popular character has a plotline that is often criticized as not being needed in the film. Which effectively removes that character from the film. If you ain't doing anything of note , the audience doesn't care. Even if you had interesting interactions. They want to see you doing something interesting. 

Utility is important, and to downplay this is to fall of the trappings of many a bad screenplay, movie, tv show , fanfiction... whatever. Where there are characters around for no reason, and everyone hates them, but the writers like them so its fine. Its not. 

[Diogenes]

It's not as if Amy's helpless, though. She's not superhuman, but she's reasonably agile and swings a massive hammer. That's enough to do platforming and fight robots and shit.

[SpongicX]

I personally consider Amy a member of Team Sonic, I just wish the games would quit acting like she isn't. It's so unbalanced, one minute she's working with Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, next she's alienated, and working without them, or against them. It gets very annoying. What's real confusing is how Amy is labeled as a friend of Sonic, yet Knuckles isn't. Knuckles is always worded like a rival of Sonic, yet too many games show Knuckles acting too chummy with Sonic, and tagging along with no explanation. So let me get this straight, Amy is a friend of Sonic's, yet she's not considered a team member. Knuckles and Sonic don't like admitting they're friends, yet Knuckles is considered a team member over Amy? 

That's one reason I was very happy with the Sonic Boom franchise at first, it was great to see these 4 on the same team. They didn't try acting like Knuckles is hiding his friendship with Sonic, yet Amy was presented as a member of the team. They didn't try making it look like Sonic and the guys didn't want her around, like in past games, they were now happy to have her around. (although a bunch of episodes eventually started treating Amy like an unwanted character...)  I just wish the main games would treat Amy like a member again. I liked how  she played a more supportive role in games like Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Chronicles, and Sonic Lost World. I wish I could count Sonic Forces, but we didn't see enough of Amy, or anyone else for that matter for it to really mean anything. (Radio communication didn't help give a sense of what the characters were really doing, it just made it look like they were standing around and blurting out the obvious.)

Whether Amy is a member of Team Sonic or not, I personally wish she was treated like one. Enough with constantly having teams of three, and constantly giving Amy others to be paired with. Just let Amy feel like a member of Team Sonic again. With Sonic Boom now supposedly dead, I really want to see the games try and give Amy a more active role alongside Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. 

[Swing]

I would say yes. But only because they need a girl in their team. In my animation school the teachers told me that you must have at least one strong political correct female in your cast. Otherwise you will loose half of your viewers.  

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's not as if Amy's helpless, though. She's not superhuman, but she's reasonably agile and swings a massive hammer. That's enough to do platforming and fight robots and shit.

I'm by no means saying that. Its just that I would make the argument , she isn't really doing anything like... to enhance the dynamic? Both in utility and interaction. Its nothing she's doing no one else isn't doing you feel me?

BOOM amy however, is perfect. See in sonic boom, everyone in that world has the " i'm an asshole " disease. Amy being a bit more immune to this disease than others allowed her to be a sort of team mom and moral center. Normal amy can't do this , one because...everyone in the normal sonic universe is a better person, and two sonic , tails and knuckles don't want to be or need to be " mommed" . In Boom yeah she didn't do anything interesting in terms of combat, but she provided as a character an aspect that the team didn't have. Something to ground them so cynicism didn't get unbelievably high. Also while they never used it... ever. apparently boom amy was an archaeologist and knew a lot of stuff about that world. See utility that also informs her character and makes her interactions better. 

Maybe regular amy can use some of that magic she is interested in? Maybe she's the teams magical guide and when things magic related come up, she's there to help save the day! Bam, utility, informs the character and makes them interesting. All I want. With out that, and I say this with no hatred of the character she's pink sonic who can't quite run as fast and can't hit as hard as knuckles. And who's personality varies wildly from writer to writer from, docile and doing nothing in forces. To psychopathic in older games, to a caring person in the comics

 

 

[SpongicX]

15 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm by no means saying that. Its just that I would make the argument , she isn't really doing anything like... to enhance the dynamic? Both in utility and interaction. Its nothing she's doing no one else isn't doing you feel me?

BOOM amy however, is perfect. See in sonic boom, everyone in that world has the " i'm an asshole " disease. Amy being a bit more immune to this disease than others allowed her to be a sort of team mom and moral center. Normal amy can't do this , one because...everyone in the normal sonic universe is a better person, and two sonic , tails and knuckles don't want to be or need to be " mommed" . In Boom yeah she didn't do anything interesting in terms of combat, but she provided as a character an aspect that the team didn't have. Something to ground them so cynicism didn't get unbelievably high. Also while they never used it... ever. apparently boom amy was an archaeologist and knew a lot of stuff about that world. See utility that also informs her character and makes her interactions better. 

Maybe regular amy can use some of that magic she is interested in? Maybe she's the teams magical guide and when things magic related come up, she's there to help save the day! Bam, utility, informs the character and makes them interesting. All I want. With out that, and I say this with no hatred of the character she's pink sonic who can't quite run as fast and can't hit as hard as knuckles. And who's personality varies wildly from writer to writer from, docile and doing nothing in forces. To psychopathic in older games, to a caring person in the comics

 

 

I liked how Amy was the more responsible one in Boom, but I hated how they mostly used it at her expense. Usually her responsible nature made her the frowned upon member of the team. Everyone would sigh or moan at everything she has to say, and she would usually end up being miserable or annoyed by her friends constantly ignoring her, or being annoyed with her. It was kind of sad to see the more irresponsible characters getting episodes that glorified them, and gave them real rewarding endings. Poor Amy only got one episode like that, and it was "Give Bees A Chance". I felt Amy had a lot of wasted potential in Sonic Boom, which is a shame. I loved her character in that show, but I hated how so many episodes wrote it out like everyone was against her, yet didn't give her any real rewarding endings for all the torment she has to go through.

Sure, the Unnamed Episode gave Amy a happy ending by having Sticks name the town after her, but it still doesn't change the fact that everyone treated her poorly throughout the episode. Sure, Sticks did something nice for Amy in the end, yet Amy didn't really get anything from the people who treated her poorly.  It's pretty sad how everyone cheered for Sticks when she gave the town back to the people, yet they all booed at Amy when she pointed out how it was all possible due to her research at the library. Amy was such a cool character in that show, yet was treated like the butt of the joke in so many episodes. It doesn't help that some episodes portrayed Amy a bit poorly as well, Chez Amy being an example of Amy acting a bit too aggressive and out of character. 

[Kuzu]

23 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm by no means saying that. Its just that I would make the argument , she isn't really doing anything like... to enhance the dynamic? Both in utility and interaction. Its nothing she's doing no one else isn't doing you feel me?

BOOM amy however, is perfect. See in sonic boom, everyone in that world has the " i'm an asshole " disease. Amy being a bit more immune to this disease than others allowed her to be a sort of team mom and moral center. Normal amy can't do this , one because...everyone in the normal sonic universe is a better person, and two sonic , tails and knuckles don't want to be or need to be " mommed" . In Boom yeah she didn't do anything interesting in terms of combat, but she provided as a character an aspect that the team didn't have. Something to ground them so cynicism didn't get unbelievably high. Also while they never used it... ever. apparently boom amy was an archaeologist and knew a lot of stuff about that world. See utility that also informs her character and makes her interactions better. 

Maybe regular amy can use some of that magic she is interested in? Maybe she's the teams magical guide and when things magic related come up, she's there to help save the day! Bam, utility, informs the character and makes them interesting. All I want. With out that, and I say this with no hatred of the character she's pink sonic who can't quite run as fast and can't hit as hard as knuckles. And who's personality varies wildly from writer to writer from, docile and doing nothing in forces. To psychopathic in older games, to a caring person in the comics

 

 

I'd argue this is mostly a recent thing since they basically culled the entire cast barring Sonic, Tails ,and Eggman but she did have some of that in the Adventure series. She was mostly concerned with helping the Flicky bird, which in turned tied into Gamma's face turn. And of course, there's the whole business with Shadow.  So you could make a case that Amy works a sort of "Morality Pet" to use Tvtropes` terms, given her more empathetic nature. Especially since it led to better long term results compared to Sonic brute forcing his way through everything.

[Wraith]

47 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I feel like both of those things are important. Sonic isn't a slice of life series where we are just hanging out , its an action adventure series. And even with super hero team dynamics, usually each member of the team while interacting with another member contributes something unique that not only allows them to be an interesting character allows them to stand on their own.Even if its a different perspective on matters. And  even in consideration I don't think amy offer's that different of a perspective, when they are going out adventuring and such. 

Amy lives in a normal city, does normal person things and seems to be relatively well adjusted. This gives her a unique perspective, compared to

Shadow, who is an isolated loner due to his circumstances until he meets sonic and opens up

Knuckles, who is an isolated loner due to his circumstances until he meets sonic opens up

Blaze, who is an isolated loner due to circumstances until she meets, cream, and then sonic, and opens up

also, shadow and blaze do the same shit as sonic with different colors over it. amy consistently has the most unique movement and fighting system when she's playable. people are just bugging because it's "silly" and not shonen anime