Iizuka: Shadow The Hedgehog’s Target Audience Was U.S. Gamers

Iizuka: Shadow The Hedgehog’s Target Audience Was U.S. Gamers

In an interview with Official Nintendo Magazine UK, Sonic Team head Takashi Iizuka has explained that Gamecube, Xbox and PS2 title Shadow the Hedgehog was aimed at U.S. gamers. Iizuka says the reason for this is because first-person and third-person shooters had garnered so much popularity in the U.S. market and the development team saw Shadow as the perfect character to work with shooter-based gameplay.

Check out the full quote below:

“After Sonic Adventure, we had two studios, in the US and Japan,” explained the producer of Sonic Colours. “The Japanese Studio was to develop a Sonic game in the standard style, and the US studio was to develop something different which could contribute to the Sonic franchise.”

“That background generated the Shadow game as he appeared from Sonic Adventure. We wanted to offer other game systems to attract a different audience from traditional Sonic fans. In the US, first and third-person shooters were popular and we decided to go with a character who could work with them.”

Source: Official Nintendo Magazine UK

121 Comments

  1. So the target was U.S. gamers? Well whoever the trarget was Shadow the Hedgehog was a great game with an epic character.

  2. Wait, I thought this game came about because of that survey way back when….anyhow, that just blows my mind how the japanese has US gamers in some little stereotype…which sadly may be true. But, still it couldn’t help the amount of problems that game had, let alone sales. Many if it had sandbox gameplay and car jacking.

  3. Shadow was an okay game, but the guns didn’t really work with the traditional 3d game style the games had at the time. If it were me, I’d make a completely different gameplay that could suit the weapons better. But that’s just me.

  4. In the first episode of my podcast Destroy All Slackers, me and my co-host Andrew Teller play through the first level of Shadow the Hedgehog and list all the problems we had with just the first level.
    -Lack of quality controls
    -Camera problems
    -Poor weapons handling
    -Enemies requiring multiple hit kills, slowing down what’s supposed to be speedy gameplay

    All these things and more lead to an overall crappy game that COULD’VE been good had they actually just sat down and worked on it just a LITTLE more. Also, the branching levels and the way they dealt with that was terrible, just give me a linear storyline that I can play straight through, this is a SONIC game not fucking DeusEx

  5. Thanks, America, you and your needlessly extreme love for the shooter genre. :p If it wasn’t for us, Shadow the Hedgehog probably never would’ve happened.

  6. I actually liked Shadow The Hedgehog it was a good game in my opinion really showed Shadow’s true sides and we learnt more about his Past, Levels may not have been that fun but it was cool and it was also 4Kids Cast’ debut Appereance and they were really good πŸ˜€ ^^

  7. Grr Im sick and tired of people like L Kristian complaining SHadow’s character was never Ruined

    Ohh Boohoo you guys jus wanted Shadow to stay dead in SA2B well tough he didn’t Most fans are glad hes back and this game was one of da best because it shows How Shadow feels/felt back in da present n past yeah and I’m glad SEAGA gav dis twist four years ago…..It was one of da best sonic games yea yea Shadow will FOREVER AND EVER MWAHAHA x

  8. This really shouldn’t be surprising to hear. Makes perfect sense actually.
    Too bad for Sonic Team it wasn’t received well. I kind of enjoyed it.

  9. Shadow the Hedgehog was actually a pretty good game IMO. The graphics in the majority of the levels were surprisingly good for the gamecube version. I also thought it was awesome that you could play in co-op mode in single player with whatever character you find in each stage (except black doom)

    My only real problem with the game was the terrible controls on the final boss (…and Vector…*hears ‘find the computer room’ in the back of my head*) lol

  10. This is one of the games that i can’t forget it! It was really good for me, with the great music in my opinion !

  11. Its games like this that makes me *faceplam* on a daily basis. I think I would almost rather be shot point blank by one of Shadow’s weapons then to bare playing this abomination again. And now that I have learned this little piece of news, it just makes it all the more worse for me. The fact that Iizuka wanted to follow a over-rated and over-flooded genre and apply it to the greatness of the Sonic franchise is horrendous to me. What makes it even worse is that he seemed to do it for the sake of a quick buck, I don’t think I should be surprised about that though. I know I’m going to get a lot of hate comments from people, but bring them on! I’m just calling them like I see them.

    Also, are we Americans really perceived as this way to rest of the world? If so, I find that quite sad. I can’t say I didn’t see that coming though. Everyone seems to be all about mediocre shooters anymore, *coughcough/halo/coughcough* and I always seemed to get shunned by people because I’d much rather have a Wii over a Xbox 360 any day of the week because of this. I’ll admit, I’m a little biased because shooters are not my favorite genre, but I cannot for the the life of me figure out what people see in Halo. If you are going to play a shooter, play a good one! The only one I consider worthy in my book is the Half-Life franchise.

    I’m done ranting now, carry on.

  12. Shadow was my first Sonic game. It is SUCH a mess… but hey, it’s my mess, and I enjoy it. XD God, I’m either retarded, or I’m just really optimistic. And since I’ve got AS, it has to be the first one. πŸ˜›

    @HighCaliburFan: There are a massive number of stereotypes of the US, and very, very few of them are positive. ‘Americans like shooters’ is not the worst thing I’ve heard. Unfortunately, while stereotypes /aren’t/ the truth they do have their basis /in/ truth. ‘Americans like shooters’ came about because most of the best-selling American-made games to come out in the last ten years /are/ shooters.

  13. Crazee Amuricunz an ur gunz!

    But in all honesty, Shadow was one of my more memorable “Sonic” titles, for the simple reason of having “atmosphere”. Most Sonic games will have you play through a mish-mash of non-sequential and unrelated stages like “beach/jungle”, “casino/pinball”, “snow”, “factory”, “space” levels which, at this point, has become predictable (perhaps not in lay-out, but variety). Despite having various kinds of levels, Shadow always kept this dark, other-worldly ambiance. Kind of like a perpetual Halloween, or a cloud-covered world which stayed as such. In fact, I don’t remember seeing the sun aside form when in space, or from behind a reddish haze.

    So in essence, yes, Shadow was a darker game. The visuals might have been goofy, polished-off Sonic Heroes graphics (which still looked ugly and lazy), and the controls were, for the most part, abysmal… Shadow will always instill a certain feeling in me, and stand as one of the few “Sonic” titles with an actual story to tell.

  14. As an American gamer, I just wanna say you can’t pawn that horrible thing on us, you developed it πŸ˜›

    Also, what kind of reasoning is that? “We wanted it to be popular so we added our characters to something that was popular already”. Betty White’s also big in the U.S., is she appearing in Sonic 4 Episode 2?

  15. I thought people were already aware of this..
    But overall I didn’t mind this game, it had a good atmosphere, I think the story and characterization could have been better.
    I would definately play it anyday over Sonic Heroes, that game was awful imo.

  16. Well it was an up and down experience for me. I don’t care much for shooters myself. I’m sure if I played it again today like I did Sonic 2006 I would have a different opinion about it.

  17. Shadow the hedgehog had some fun elements but…

    Shadow should of stayed dead after Sonic Adventure 2

    If they wanted to please fans of shadow they should of had eggman clone him and the clone sticks around.

    But i still feel like he shouldn’t of come back, even as a clone.

    It was also the first console game to use the 4kids cast, which bothered me.
    But im not gonna get into that.

    Also the game had this weird problem where the sound effects drowned out the music.

  18. lol and just think at one point this was Sonic Adventure 3!

    Doesn’t matter who it was aimed at, it was still a terrible idea.

  19. SEGA really has a blame culture going on, what next? Blame Britain for Sonic and the Black knight being crap? Really SEGA just admit that you failed at making a game, blaming a culture for the games flaws is just pathetic…. What it dose show is that SEGA will sell out their fans and their franchises just too get more sales….

  20. I’m gonna say something controversial, just for fun.

    I LIKE this game. There, I said it. And yes, I like all Sonic games ever. Apart from 06, obviously.

    Like I always say, it’s better if you play games like this and view it from an objective standpoint and appreciate it for what it is. It’s an enjoyable game which allows you a lot of freedom and there are some great ideas behind it. As ever the big problem is that the execution is not quite what it could have been, but… for what it is, it’s a fun game. And there are multiple endings, 3 of which see Eggman get karate chopped to death. LOL

  21. It doesn’t matter how much research they think they’re doing into what people of a certain demographic like, broken gameplay is broken gameplay. You can use the Chaos Control move in that game and through no fault of your own break the game and force you to have to restart the level in order to complete it.

    My opinion is that I feel like anyone who says this game is in anyway good needs a punch in the face, then have any or all the Ratchet and Clank games thrown at them so maybe they’d get a clue as to how a game with gunplay mixed with platforming is supposed to work.

  22. You know what? I’ve never played the game, so I really can’t talk, but that was kinda low for SEGA to push a genre onto a franchise where it wouldn’t work just to make a quick buck. And now the series is scared for life. I don’t even like shadow anymore. On Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow was a bada**, and at the end of the game, it made a nice ending. But then heroes and shadow the ehdgehog came along, and shadow became a reg. The beautiful ending was ruined. After meeting an obsessed sonic fangirl at church, I now see Shadow as more of a fangirl magnet Archie uses(along with Scourge) to get girls to buy their sonic comics then a bada** he was susposed to be in the games.

  23. Sega always had a gun based game in mind, due to requests of giving sonic a gun, but they decided to give it to shadow to protect sonic’s character. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_the_Hedgehog Anywho, i loved the game, and it was a smart choice to protect sonic for kids. I mean, sonic didnt end up like a horrible death like the ren and stimpy adult cartoon, if you want pure shit, thats what it looks like.

    Now then, best commercial ever… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btocx2o5gZQ

  24. I have to agree with HighCaliburFun. And Shadow is best when he’s what he is. The Vegeta type character.
    Or the Lancer if you will. (TVTropes that) The game was ok… But I’m not coming back to it.

    This is a series where a doctor in space used part of an alien to clone a humanoid hedgehog who runs really fast, shoots energy out of his hands, and can teleport. Guns were just not needed. GUN is. But it’s just too odd to have something simple like actual guns.

    But as a person who is not the stereotype of an American, I might should be offended by this. But, he’s already offended me. They make Sonic 4 not as good as they said it was or could.

  25. Looking back, it does seem like the game was a good idea business-wise. Like it or not, Shadow sold far more than Sonic Colors did in the same time span. IIRC it sold about 600,000 on Gamecube, and 400,000 to 500,000 on PS2. Colors has yet to reach even the PS2 number on the Wii and DS combined. The game even got an 8.3 from Gametrailers, so the game definitely had an audience.

  26. @ProjectZuel

    Yes Seriously πŸ˜€ I know what your thinking (OMG) lol It was a great game in my eyes….sure there wasn’t much excitment except for Thrashing and blasting enemies XD I was a bit younger then…It showed us more about Shadow’s past so we understood why Shadow was so mysterious and dark etc… may not have been the best Sonic game but I liked this game a lot πŸ˜‰ and I’m from the UK…

    My favourite 3D Sonic Game is Unleashed and honestly I don’t mind all 3D Games except 06, (The Story Of SR) and Colours (Wii)

    Despite some lack of gameplay I thought Shadow The Hedgehog was a good game overall.

  27. Personally I too liked the game mainly cause i do love guns and vehicles and as for people mentioning glitches and bad controls, sorry but i never saw them at all and the controls were just the same as Sonic Adventure DX and SA2: battle, I had the gamecube shadow game only. but even so i never once came across any glitches, it seemed like an ok game. wasnt the best faior enough but wasnt that bad, guess some like and others hate, cant expect everyone to love all games in the series.

  28. I actually liked Shadow the Hedgehog. It’s one of my favorite “Sonic” games ever, which is saying a lot considering I didn’t expect it to be that good. And even though I am American, I am NOT a fan of shooters (except this one). While I was initially unsure about the use of weapons in this game, I actually enjoyed using them, since it made enemies easier to attack. That is, instead of hurling myself at an enemy using the homing attack and thus risking getting hit by a counter attack or falling off the stage, I could just shoot anything that got in my way.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing a remake of this for Wii and/or PlayStation Move, with graphical enhancements and improved controls (specifically the ability to aim by pointing at the screen). Or a sequel, using Sonic Colors-style 2.5D gameplay (but with the occasional weapon/vehicle).

    Still, it’s a little disappointing to hear Iizuka’s reason for creating this game: copycatting a popular genre simply for sales.

  29. Even though I think Shadow is kind of a lame character, this game is still one of my favorite Sonic games to date.

  30. To put my two cents in, I was severely disappointed in the Shadow the Hedgehog game. Actually, I was even disappointed in Sonic Heroes before that. As someone else said, “the beautiful ending [of Sonic Adventure 2] was ruined.” You know, if you ask me, it’s hard to find a quality storyline in Sonic games these days. I don’t get into ANY of them anymore. Sonic 06 was okay… except Elise ruined everything, IMO. *shot* Anyway, SA2 had beautiful emotion packed into it, and then… it seems worthless when he came back. I cried when Shadow died at the end of that game… I was *initially* excited to have him back, but then when I saw his behavior, it wasn’t the hedgehog I cried for in the previous game…

    But, Heroes, ShtH, and no games after it made me hate Shadow. I don’t like him nearly as much as in SA2, for the games… but a perk of fanfiction is writing your own stuff so you can be satisfied with something by changing it if you don’t approve of it. =P Lol. So in my world, Shadow is always awesome… except when he’s nawt. Bwahahaa.

  31. @ C.J
    You my friend deserve a high five. The was great. Sure it was edgy at times, but they made up for it with fairly made levels, GREAT music, and the whole Dark, Hero, Neutral deal was pure genius. The along with the final story gave us a great game. > > I did hate how you have to wait after 7mins of the final to hear eggman reveal you are the real shadow >: | I hated flying around for that long to wait for that crap =x= It was nice to have a story that wasn’t all sonic for once >o> Now we have to wait and between 10 years now they’re gonna give Silver his own game DERP….=w= dear god no. I do wish they would give shadow a sequel and fix his shooting system > > Wasn’t much failing, just shoot and it goes straight to the enemy o;

  32. All I can say is “duh” and “sigh”

    I don’t know which is sadder, the fact that they stooped so low as to cater a “Sonic” game toward that audience, or the fact that that demographic exists in the first place.

  33. No silly Iizuka! The perfect character to worth with shooter-based gameplay is Nack The Weasel a.k.a. Fang the “SNIPER”!!! .__________________________________________.

  34. No silly Iizuka! The perfect character to work with shooter-based gameplay is Nack The Weasel a.k.a. Fang the “SNIPER”!!! .__________________________________________.

  35. One of the best Sonic games ever Yup :)….Much better than the Adventure Series and Heroes and I for one am glad they didn’t give Fang a shooter based gameplay

    It works perfectly for Shadow πŸ˜‰

  36. If they really wanted to do a first person shooter styled “SONIC” games they should’ve just made it a spin-off game from the robots’ perspectives showing numerous badniks as playable fighters letting them adventure across zones (the style of zones only that can be explored instead of finished like Knuckles treasure hunting zones only bigger)

    Then we could choose one of many creative badniks to fight with and go around hunting other badniks or GUN robots, or play GUN robots hunting badniks. XD Or even let us play the Sonic characters without guns but with similar gameplay to a first person shooter just using Sonic’s abilities instead of guns. =D lol

  37. @Ax

    Nawwww…man….sorry it wouldn’t work for me….(The noises, the Fires, The shots, the violence the AAAAH) Goo idea though I just woudln’t enjoy it perticulary srry Hun xxx

  38. @Kacey

    “I for one am glad they didn’t give Fang a shooter based gameplay”

    Perhaps you missed the big hint I specifically emphasized in his NAME. He’s called Fang the SNIPER! They DID give him shooter based gameplay… ALWAYS. He’s had a gun… ALWAYS. XD

    And you must be trolling, kidding or be just plain silly to say that Shadow The Hedgehog was better than the Adventure series. I know it’s just your opinion, but it’s a silly one that is the minority. I respect your opinion but I don’t accept it as correct except when regarding your preference. Especially after saying you’re GLAD they didn’t do it for Fang specifically just because someone else suggested it would be better for Fang.

  39. @Kacey

    Well sorry Kacey but the idea wasn’t meant to work for you. It was meant to work for the better majority crowd who would prefer something more creative and actually fun. Something that’d actually combine “SONIC” style with that style without cheapening the quality of both like they did in Shadow The Hedgehog AND in Sonic & the Black Knight. (I mean Sonic gameplay plus sword gameplay could’ve been awesome but they limited BOTH to repetitive crap. XD)

  40. @Ax

    How is it silly to say STH was better than the SA Series Huh? I’m gonna be honest The Adventure series wasn’t all good and positive it lacked a lot of things (Lame V/A and dialouge, Glitches, Fishing stages and Amy stages)….Despite the strong violence Shadow had its moments and it was special in another way for me….a big improvment from Heroes Its just my opinion…You may not agree but dont’ get too hasty….just be respectufull okay? and I never said it was meant to work for me….I was just telling you how I felt and hopefully others could have replied too….I said It wouldn’t work for ME not for all of us…everyone is entitled tto theire ownn ipinon

    I’m sorry for letting out my opinion so early…..But come on Dude relax no need to get Pushy D= I didn’t think it would work for Fang sorry hun and yes I know he has a gun but it really had no thrill wasn’t that serious or anything…Just sorta done for fun and jokess

    I apologise again Hun xxx

  41. Oh c’mon u guys, the game wasn’t that bad.
    The Graphics were…
    Well the script…
    The Gamepla…
    Level De…
    Nevermind

  42. @Kacey

    It’s silly because the graphics were cheesier. The designs were cheesier. The dialogue was cheesier. The acting was more or less cheesier. The story was REALLY cheesy in comparison. The levels were much more repetitive. The game had no “style”. The Adventures series seperately and definately together had a lot to offer while Shadow The Hedgehog doesn’t offer much.

    EVERY game has it’s set of flaws and positives. I’m not saying I didn’t like Shadow The Hedgehog. I don’t think that era of games are as bad as obssessed people exaggerate. But it definately lacks quality over the previous games. And it’s a silly opinion to call it the best like that when it could’ve been so much more… well more.

    What REALLY makes the Adventure series beat Shadow The Hedgehog is that Shadow himself was actually a badass in the Adventure series while in Shadow The Hedgehog he just wasn’t that interesting. He was a cliche.

    I don’t really think it’s worse than Sonic Heroes but it’s not really an improvement. It’s actually equal to Sonic Heroes to me with one aiming for “dark” and the other aiming for “bubbly” and happy and stuff.

    And I’d listen to your preachiness about being respectful of others’ opinions if you actualyl even cared about that load. The point is your remark on my opinion about Fang basically acted like my opinion was just wrong despite it being an opinion. So you should have no complaints about my comments towards your opinion. Technically, it’s not like I can actually take it away from you. XD

  43. @Kacey

    Anyhoo don’t worry about me about to explode cuz I’m not… I’m just ranting. =P (Reaction to the way you responded to my Fang comment. XD)

    @Miles-Per-Hour

    Well put. XD

  44. Shadow has always been a shitty character, regardless of game.

    Sing it with me now: “One of these characters is not like the others… One of these characters just doesn’t belong!”

  45. Ah, what a fun game it was…It really gave me new found respect for Shadow. I felt bad for him (how horrible to have the memory of someone getting shot, and having no idea who it was? Yikes), but mainly it combined him with rocket launchers.

    I love explosions, I’m not going to lie. At least in Shadow’s game you couldn’t really blow yourself up (like I do all the time in Halo). And the save points were different but cool. Admittedly, the acting was poor in some areas, but the plot itself wasn’t that bad. Being able to delve into the past of a character is always a fun opportunity, and being able to explore the ARK again was fun.

    Let us not forget this game gave us the oh-so-fun Chaos Blast, and the annoying but now famous phrase; “Find the computer room!” *Shudders* I wish you could have shot the AI helpers sometimes…

    At least Sonic always got run over by non-moving vehicles XD He was more annoying than Vector, Doom’s Eye, Eggman, and Charmy combined!

  46. @Grassy:

    Are you aware that any of the AI helpers that have legs can be controlled by plugging a controller into the second port?

  47. I wasn’t sure about it at first, but once I got into the groove of things I really loved this game. It’s what got me into the franchise, so Sega’s made more than just $50 off of me as a result of this game, so I guess their evil scheme worked. Not that I mind, it’s been the funnest 5 years I’ve ever had.

  48. @Grassy
    Hey, at least you got to shoot Sonic square in the face at the end of the dark story when you face off against him. Always cracked me up. ^_^

  49. (8) I am I’m all of Me!!! (I am) I am I’m all of me (I am) I am I’m all of Me (I am) I am I’m all of me (8) …. I loved both the song and game a lot 8)

  50. @ChaoticFox

    Funny you should say that. I always found him more fitting than say… Bark the Polar Bear, Vector the Crocodile, Silver The Hedgehog, Cream The Rabbit and Black freakin Doom himself. In fact… he works pretty well in SA2. And he’s obviously not shitty if he’s got a lot of fans. XD Granted, you don’t like him for who knows what reasons. I guess cuz he’s black and thus stereotyped “emo” despite always having the exact opposite personality but yeah. I think he was at least cool in SA2. o-O

    And Shadow The Hedgehog wasn’t really that bad just… you know, not amazing. XD

    @Kacey

    Because!! :U lol

    Geez with the way people are reacting the only “bad” Sonic games are Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Drinft 1 and 2, Sonic 2006, Sonic & the Secret Rings and Sonic & the Black Knight. That’s like 1/5 of all his games. XD

  51. @Ax

    Silver is a shitty character too. I never said Shadow was the only bad character, just the least fitting one of the most popular/commonly recurring cast (which excludes characters like Doom and Silver). Cream is an awful character too, but imo she seems to blend in much more naturally.

    Saying he’s not a shitty character because he has fans is ridiculous (especially when you consider the average age range and intellectual capacity of the vast majority of them). Sonic 06 is a platinum hit, but that doesn’t in any way make it GOOD. Dumb people have nonsensical and atrociously low standards and often completely senseless tastes , and dumb people outnumber intelligent and tasteful people by an astronomical margin. I could make any number of comparisons to obscenely horrific popular media icons and trends to illustrate my point.

    Shadow worked as a PLOT device for SA2, but he was never a good character, even then. I liked him INFINITELY more when I thought he was just a plot convenient one-shot, but ever since then they’ve only taken his horrible conception and convoluted it to make him one of the most absurdly bizarre and unfitting characters in the franchise. Shadow the Hedgehog is the embodiment of a shameless fanfic writer’s wet dreams.

  52. Sure it would have been great to have Omega in his own shooter/beat em up. Despite that, Shadow probably holds greater brand recognition. And while they wanted to attract a new audience, I’m sure they also wanted to make sure everyone recognized it as a “Sonic” game. A shooter fan may not have played Sonic Heroes and may not know who Omega is, let alone Nack/Fang. In any case, I think Shadow was fitting for a game of this nature. Despite his enjoyment of challenge, he can still be quite ruthless and will do anything to get what he wants or needs when it boils down to it. Also, his whole goal in SA2 was to shoot the Earth with a gun in space. In that context, him using a pistol isn’t really odd at all.

    I did enjoy this game. It’s not nearly as bad as everyone gives it credit for, but it’s not good either. It’s stuck in the purgatory of “meh”. It had some nice ideas, but they were executed sloppily. That and some of those levels actually do deserve every bit of hate they get.

  53. I already knew this, or at least assumed this. I took the game for what it was; a really mediocre third-person shooter that spun-off the main Sonic series that starred Shadow, who was always a character I liked. I made it a rent to make sure I played it, and would buy it if I loved it.

    I demolished the game in less than a week, and I didn’t buy it after wards, but I did enjoy it. Although, now that it’s so much cheaper used, I might snag it soon. I miss a lot of those old games!

    I think that there was just too much drama surrounding this game. This was the first game to handle the 4kids voice team (You know how much we all loved that change!) and the growing pains were obvious. It was coming off of the Adventure games, which a lauded by fans for being stellar. And it isn’t a conventional game for the franchise, but wasn’t being billed as a spin-off (which it is).

    I think those of us who expected something really different are the ones who like it best.

  54. @Kacey

    If I wanted to. =)

    @C.J.

    It’s.. uhh… noooooothing. o-o

    @ChaotixFox

    It’s not ridiculous since the judgement of whether or not he’s a shitty character depends on how successful he is. XD I’d almost agree with you on the mental capacity thing, but then I’d be judging others as if I were above them and that would only be a sign of me being just as stupid. =P (Besides that, I know a couple of people who like Shadow and who like Silver or both and the idea of you calling THEM stupid is both jarring and frustrating since they’re both very smart and very kind. =__=)

    You are right about one thing though. The Sonic fasn have NO taste. XD

    So cna you describe why he doesn’t fit? Because he seems to fit to me considering he’s meant to be almost exactly like Sonic with an opposite personality, which he does and is very common in many franchises. I’m not seeing how he is any less fitting than all the other characters since there’s a large variety of them. So far I only find characters that are fitting the basic description of a type of character. The only thing I’m seeing a problem with is Storm the Albatross being a cross between Big and Vector. I guess Big the Cameo fits in more than the Dark part of “Light and Dark”. XD I mean I get that it’s an opinion, but you’re calling people stupid and acting like your’s is above all and not even explaining your opinion.

    I guess all I can say is oh well. -_-

  55. @Ax

    Again I will reiterate that success =/= quality. All I would need to do to prove that is to point you toward any massively popular person/character/franchise that you strongly dislike, and suddenly you would see my point. Popularity in no way reflects something’s true value, only its subjective worth in the eyes of a particular group.

    People can throw an “it’s all a matter of opinion” fit if they wish, but at the end of the day there are quantifiable characteristics (too many to list here) that make up a well designed and well written original character, and Shadow is lacking in those departments, both as a character and as a game.

    I could go on and on about every detail that makes him as bad as he is, as well as go to the trouble of explaining why he doesn’t fit… but I do not wish to do that here. I’ve already grown somewhat tired of this discussion in the first place.

    Even if I were to elaborate on all the reasons he is a terrible character and explain precisely why he doesn’t belong, I’m quite obviously not going to change anyone’s opinion, and it was not really my intention to do so. This was just my two cents on the subject.

    “Oh well” indeed.

  56. How anyone thought that it was a good idea to tackle the popularity of FPS games with the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise is beyond me.

    “Well, I know Mr. Rogers has always been about a friendly old man playing with puppets, but that Michael Bay fellow is garnering quite a following. Why don’t we try adding a few car chase sequences to the puppet segments, add some stylish filters to give the show a cool new look and throw in some hip-hop songs?”

  57. @Ax

    Ya don’t get what that means do ya? Yer comments were Shalllow and Pendatic and You can talk da leg Of an iron Pot or Donkey (>>>) Ya knooe????

  58. @ Umiyuri – Yes, but frankly, I never had anyone to play the game with (I’ve had it for 5 years and have yet to do 2 player mode 0o’). And I’m not very good with controlling two characters…Besides, watching Sonic continually fall to his death is rewarding enough πŸ™‚

    @ PastytheHuman – Shoot him? I punched him in the face! XD Geez, that boss always took at least half an hour to kill…Although maaaaaybe I should have shot out the shield first :/ Eh. It works XD

  59. @Ax

    You’re on spot about all of your points. Shadow The Hedgehog was amazingly bad… Not because Sonic himself wasn’t playable in the game (ie Knuckles Chaotix -brilliant game-)

    But because Shadow is a weight on the entire Sonic franchise. He was supposed to be dead in SA2, then he was revived in Heroes… only to find out later that any rendition of Shadow you see could be nothing more than a mere Android copy of the dead original with false memories… That alone takes the excitement out of playing.

    Not to mention crappy graphics, crappy scripts, crappy music, crappy everything EXCEPT CG! I’m not sure who SEGA hired to do the cutscenes since Heroes. But they should work on a movie at this point. The CGI from Sonic Colours was breathtakingly well-done.

    Back to topic: Shadow is dead fanboys and girls… Go play Knuckles Chaotix instead to learn how a Sonic-less “Sonic” game should be made. Good Day.

  60. As far as i’m concerned, nothing has happened to sonic and the gang since SA2. But shadow was sorta fun at some times, it was a damper on the entire sonic story

  61. @Milo

    Oi watch it Shadow may be dead to you but not everyone thinks the same yeah? To me he’s not dead He’s alive and well….Don’t force people to accept he’s dead gosh how rude you a bit mouthy eh? I think someone is going over the top here

    Here’s what I suggest,,,Think about others for a change and then get back to me

    Good day to your sir :@ :@ :@ πŸ˜› xxx

  62. @Kacey

    I guess Shadow did make you a tad wet.

    For me, SHadow was a bad game due to that. Not just because of glitches or level design, but due to the stupid fandom built around him.

    Shadow was supposed to be dead in SA2. That’s where I liked him as a character, started as a rival, died as a Hero. Okay.

    Then Heroes, he was revived. Again, why?

    Then at ShTH, it all made sense. It was just because of the fandom. Of course, SEGA had a flaw on story, gameplay, level design, and all after SA2, but this one takes the cake.

    But still, Milo has two points:

    1 – Go play Knuckles’s Chaotix, wonderful game;
    2 – Dem CGi were sexy on Colours. B)

  63. I think the game is very underrated. No one sees the good things the game brings us cus the only thing you focus on is that Sonic games shouldn’t hav weapons and stuff like that in it. I can see alot of good things in the game, is isn’t the best game or anything, but I still find it sad that no one can see the good things it has, even if it isn’t a awesome game.
    Actually I can write a pretty long list on good things, the game suffers becaus of a not so good camera, some bugs, and it’s a little bit hard to control him. But you can race trough a level fast, there are some plattforming, and on one level you have to use a gun to suck block out of a wall and then jump up on them. There’re loops and many common Sonic things. The game isn’t so diffrent compared to Sonic Heroes, which got waaay better scores. But people whine cus it’s guns in the game.
    But as I said, not a perfect game or anything, but there are fun parts of th games and it is sad that many people couldn’t enjoy some good parts of the game. I may sound like a crazy fan-girl who loves every Sonic game, but I’m not. I just think that this game deservs some poseitive words too. That’s all. But I think you should just forget about the game if you thinks it’s so horrible and be happy that Sonic Colors turned out good instead.

  64. @ChaoticFox

    “All I would need to do to prove that is to point you toward any massively popular person/character/franchise that you strongly dislike, and suddenly you would see my point.” Not likely. I don’t like Justin Bieber but unlike some people I can actually SEE that it makes no sense to hate on him and say he is actually bad since it’s only my opinion. I realize that I only dislike him because it’s not in my personal taste.

    And who decides what’s considered well designed and well written? That’d take us back to “it’s all a matter of opinion” anyways.

    If Shadow is lacking then he probably fits in best with the main Sonic cast compared to other extras since there isn’t really much to Sonic himself other than he’s a carefree hero. What exactly is Shadow lacking? I can understand you don’t wanna go through every detail, but can you at least give one? I merely wonder why some people dislike Shadow, and only express this after he became more popular is all. =)

    @Kacey
    I don’t care. =) You have the choice to just… not read. XD But if you do that it’s probably best to also not respond cuz it’d be too risky. Either way, your comment was a little insulting is all so that’s why I responded how I did. I’m done now though. XD

    @Milo

    “He was supposed to be dead in SA2” Funny thing about that actually. XD He was never supposed to be dead. lol I never even thought he was dead. At the time I thought he did Chaos Control (It looked like a purple Chaos Control to me… he’s Shadow, he was in his Super Form and he would have to live to keep his promise. XP) I think it was cuz Sonic said “He gave his life…” that confused people. But yeah it’s true, everything after that they just made him a weight. But maybe in the future he won’t be since they DID close that chapter. =D I mean, in Sonic Heroes the good thing is he’s still here. In ShadowTH even for those who didn’t like that game the good thing is he has all his memories back. In next gen.. tho it didn’t really count, he didn’t have anything to do with that subject and was probably the most useful character and important story of the game. lol Sure it might take him 5 mroe years to save himself now that he sounds like some sort of child molesting reptile smoker but it could indeed get better. =) I mena, SEGA might evolve the characters all into something fantastic and make us like every last single one of them. Anything can happen. =D LOL

  65. @Ax

    After 5 seconds you can really talk the leg of an Iron pot 😐 I can’t just ignore comments lyk does he needs to learn lessons

  66. @Ax

    Haha How stupid have I been of course πŸ˜€ Oh man….. Kacey is saying the line which was used in Sonic Rush Adventure by Marine when she was arguing with Blaze it something Australian

    “Talking the leg of an iron pot” means talking a lot lol Lame πŸ˜€

  67. Milo seems to be wrong because Black Doom reveals to Shadow that he was created from Black Doom’s blood plus the Biolizard was the same way too. Black Doom only knew one Shadow. He didn’t know that there was Shadow Andriods. The Commander, Black Doom, and Professor Gerald Robotnik knew that Shadow was real plus the scrape on his skates too. In the battle with Devil Doom, Eggman finally tells Shadow that he’s not an andriod and he was saved by one of Eggman’s robots. “That’s why you were created Shadow. YOU would help us do BOTH.” Even Mephiles knew that the humans were responsible for what they’ve done on the ARK, 50 years ago. So yeah he’s real.

  68. @Austin Luna

    Exactly well said thank you Austin for listing those points out πŸ˜€ they are so true and yeah Milo should be more respectful you can’t just come out and blurt thaat out of the blue like that I mean not everyone will agree with you and thats so out of order show some respect!

  69. @C.J

    Well done Mr Detective….Do you want a medal(?) :/

    @Ax

    😐 Try and learn it for once or at least pretend you know….xxx

  70. Shadow the hedgehog was good in terms of story but gameplay was horrible. It was made out to be crazily dark but red bullets and green blood? Get serious. If you want a FPS to work. 16+ rating atleast.

  71. @Austin Luna

    There were still people who thought it wasn’t the real Shadow? O.O

    @C.J.

    I know what Kacey meant by it. And I never played Sonic Rush Adventure. Handheld games usually feel so boring to me for some reason. ._. I slightly recognized that it was a Marine reference but didn’t put too much thought into it because I didn’t see any reason too. Kacey’s just trolling me now repeating his or herself.

    @Kacey

    Kacey, you’re pointless now. But Happy Holidays. πŸ˜€

  72. @Ax

    How I my trolling :\ Funny since I did nothing and SHut upp I ain’t poointless both u and C.J can SHuttt ittt!!!! how rude of you people to treat a lady lyk meeh badly >_< Unhappy Holidays :P.

  73. Knuckles Chaotix is one of (if not THE) worst 2D Sonic games ever released. Good music, awful game. The End.

    @Ax

    I can’t really have that discussion or answer your questions satisfactorily when you’re the type of person who believes in total subjectivity and cannot recognize or determine an objective standard between good and bad taste. Nothing I can say will shake your “it’s all a matter of opinion” stance, and every explanation or justification I list will simply be subject that that cop-out retort.

  74. @Kacey

    Lady? And badly? I SAID Happy Holidays. =D lol

    @ChaoticFox

    A: Naw, it’s definately one of the, but it’s not THE. Well, not to me anyways. I can’t stand any of the Game Gear games. XD Not to mention Tails’ Sky Patrol and Tails Adventure. =P

    B: “Your”? What? Since when did I become the owner? XD Anyhoo, the reason you can’t shake the “it’s all a matter of opinion” stance is because to do otherwise would suggest that one person is correct while the other isn’t, but how can you determine that? With guidelines? But who created the guidelines? Does everyone agree with them? How do you determind that those who agree with them are right and those who don’t are wrong? ANOTHER set of guidelines? Then it just ends up being an endless spiral of the same thing over and over which never concludes one as actually being correct and anything more than a personal opinion.

    Basically what you’re saying is the typical “I have a reason I just won’t tell you” deal that we hear from kids, which usually ends up meaning that they’ve got nothing. I just want you to list SOMETHING that can be an actual example with actual support as to why it’s a valid example, otherwise how am I supposed to even come close to agreeing with you? O:

  75. @ChaoticFox

    Y’know, I can list reasons why many people like him and think he’s cool and even why he fits in. He balances the series as the anti-hero, he’s the serious guy as no one else in the series is and there is pretty much at least 1 character for each character type, he has will power much like Sonic, he looks cool similar to Sonic, he has an actual storyline, he shows actual depth in personality unlike most Sonic characters, he shows inner conflict which he overcomes, he’s an opposing personality to Sonic himself even as a protagonist and contrary to popular belief he doesn’t dwell on the negative like the “emo” people accuse him of being just because he’s black. xD lol

    I’m not saying everyone has to like him. I’m not saying he isn’t overrated. Just saying he’s overrated as well as underrated. =P I don’t mind that you dislike him, but as far as I can see he’s no more of a “shitty character” than Mighty, Amy, Gamma or Tails. (Just now I was trying to list a character I could imagine you not calling a “shitty character” and had a hard time thinking of any.. in which case it still seems like Shadow would fit in even if he was bad. XD)

  76. First of all, did you really just try to correct my grammar? I used the correct form of your in the proper context. YOUR belief. As in one that you personally hold. One I do not share.

    Secondly, you continue to ask for my reasoning while simultaneously telling me that NO one person can be correct and that no guidelines for quality can ever be truly established. By that logic, a buggy unfinished video game can not be objectively be called “bad” because some half-brained nitwit doesn’t think that programming quality determines ACTUAL quality. Or someone else (like yyourself perhaps) doesn’t agree that there IS an objective standard FOR quality.

    In order to really have this discussion, we’d have to boil everything down until we found some sort of common ground on what constitutes good writing, good design, and what the Sonic Universe is all about… and THEN I could contrast Shadow the Hedgehog to those principles.

    But if you REALLY need me to throw you a bone here, I’ll give you some of my gripes about his design:

    First of all, re-using the hedgehog species is ridiculous and lazy. Even more so if you consider the fact that he was CREATED. If you’re constructing the “Ultimate Lifeform”, why the fuck would it be a hedgehog with EYELINER? Yes, I’m going to bitch about the fact that he is a black hedgehog. How creative or unique is a rival character if you introduce him as nothing more than an evil clone, without even bothering to MAKE him a clone? He’s just a coincidental “shadow image” of the series protagonist. It’s like they were TRYING to re-create Sonic 2.0 to be more appealing to dark and angsty teens who didn’t think the original Sonic was “cool” enough.

    Do we really need Sonic’s “rival” to be a darker mirror image of himself with all the same abilities, plus the added bonus of being a genetically engineered ultimate weapon? Where is the creativity? Where is the opposition? That’s just straight up uninspired character design completely lacking in charm or personality. KNUCKLES was a great rival. Power to counter speed. A good REASON to be on opposing sides. Being a completely different and unique character with his own set of abilities to match his design. One who managed to be wholly original and understandably oppositional, and yet still perfectly harmonious with the characters created so far.

    To go on: “utlimate lifeform”? Really? This is a problem I have with the Sonic series in general. It tries WAY too hard to attain DBZ levels of “epicness”. Sonic is not made for that kind of content. Running at the speed of sound is epic enough, do we really need “chaos control” and “chaos blast” (not to mention the stuff he accomplishes in cutscenes)? . The only people who can really appreciate such a character are the ones it was marketed towards. The ones who wished for a darker grittier Sonic to match their more aggressive tastes. The ones who think Sonic isn’t “epic” enough and want their heroes and anti-heroes to be able to blow up planets in order for them to be cool.

    Why does the “ultimate lifeform” require hover skates to move quickly? And if he doesn’t NEED them, why does he wear them? And guns? Really? Come ON. EVERYBODY knows that was a stupid decision that didn’t fit the series.

    These issues only scratch the surface on why I consider him an abomination of a character, and I could go on to address aspects of his personality and backstory that make him even worse. In fact, many of the reasons you chose to show what makes him “cool” are precisely what make him such a poor fit for the series, and I would argue that the god-awful concepts behind his backstory as so laughable that he would have been better off without them! Sonic Team has driven this character into the ground and in fact made him WORSE than he was initially!

  77. @Ax

    Shut it okay? don’t get Cocky okay…damn ya have to be such a ballbuster on Christmas Eve? πŸ˜›

    @Chaotix Fox

    Whoa calm it dude….Men are really agressive huh? O.O and you did make a spelling error nothing to be scared of it happens but who cares :p As much as I’m not on good terms with Ax I gotta agree with the cocky guy I’d rather play as Shadow than Marine,Gamma,Big,Mighty even Jet etc :\

    Also Knuckles is still a rival of Sonic but also a great friend next to Tails and In some ways it’s much better being a bit of both other than just the Baddie/enemy though he was quite fast but not quite fast Shadow isn’t just a copy and yes it would be nice for a change in Sonic’s rival not the same old same old and he wasn’t meant to die WTF? Austin Laura pointed out the points clearly what makes Shadow unique and special in his own way (he’s a mysterious character and caring one deep deep inside and he has a heart He lost Maria a close friend, he did everything to protect her which shows He is a good character and saving thw world twice and guns? what’s so bad about gun’s really? what is wrong with change instead of the same plot over and over again

    It is definately not like DBZ :/ DBZ has its own different style not like this, try have a think carefully about this and then get back to me when you have calmed down πŸ˜›

  78. @ChaoticFox

    “First of all, did you really just try to correct my grammar?” No. What the HECK are you talking about? o0

    Uhh.. no. That’s like saying “your God” to someone, which a lot of people do. When you say it like that it sounds like you’re saying it’s something I alone made up. >.>

    Yeah, I asked for your reasoning. Not for you to prove that you’re right. I just wanted to know the reason behind your dislike.
    “otherwise how am I supposed to even come close to agreeing with you?” suggests that there is no right or wrong but merely an agreeing or disagreeing, like opinions. XD With that logic you mentioned about the buggy game, technically that’s true. However since that person would be so outnumbered it’d be more logical to please the popular opinion rather than ruin it for them to please one person who is very different. That’s just how the world is. But the big difference is, a game is functional, a character is meant to be a fiction “person” meaning any personality is valid and events related to the character that occure are not the character themselves. Their portrayal varies depending on everyone’s take.

    All that’s not necessary for this discussion. I just asked for an example. Not all that other stuff. XD There isn’t much more of that other stuff we can say after what we’ve already said, at least nothing that wouldn’t be pointless or repetititve, right?

    Wait, wasn’t Shadow only the third Hedgehog to be used? (If you include Amy the damsal, who is likely a hedgehog due to her relationship to Sonic.). I wouldn’t exactly find the “shadow image” thing to be too suprising since his name IS Shadow and was meant purposely to be coincidentally just very similar to Sonic. XD I mean, that wouldn’t really work out if he were a fox… (and I’m sure there’s more Echidnas and birds than hedgehogs. =P Hedgehogs just look cooler.) Shadow was originally gonna be a tenrec and Silver was gonna be a mink but they ended up looking too close to hedgehogs anyways. =/ But yeah they should probably introduce another cat, chameleon, skunk, croc and some sort of canine first before adding another hedgie. o: And yes… I think they were trying to appeal to the “darker and cooler” fans actually. It seems to have worked. =p

    Sonic has many rivals. His one true rival is actually Jet now. Being a mirror image of sorts was sort’ve the only option for that placement though. One of the 3 best “equally matched ones” are those who are like you but not you. (Knuckles and Jet ALSO have a similarity to Sonic in design and abilities. Shadow just does it the most as that type of character hadn’t yet been made. I guess it is a redundant theme in many franchises, but it’s usually interesting to most people.) As for Knuckles, I know he was Sonic’s enemy at first but besides Sonic X I don’t recall him being Sonic’s rival… well okay there’s Sonic Rivals but EVERYONE was rivals there. lol

  79. I think Knuckles was pretty harmonous because… well let’s face it. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are the most original designed Sonic characters in the franchise and no other character is as simple yet creative and no other future character ever will be because making one that fits those 3 well is not possible. XD

    You have a point there. (Though the “ultimate life form” thing was actually meant less for his power and more for his reason of creation which was to create a living being that was advanced compared to the flaws in our natural designs of life. Though Shadow ended up saying SONIC was actually the Ultimate Life Form. But I do think they’re going overboard with that now that Sonic is a legend from some prophecy left and right these days. And I agree that Shadow’s crazy super powers are ridiculous. But that’s also while I restricted what I considered him being cool to just SA2. XD)

    I think the hover skates are a part of his body. (Some may disagree with me but.. he doesn’t use a freakin switch to turn them on, they don’t really look removable and it’s not too unheard of since Biolizard also had mechanics attached to him.) Otherwise, I think the hovershoes are just for style. XD (kinda like why does he have random silver chest hair. o3o)

    As for the guns… yeah. That was weird. (Though people focus on the guns too much. They were the majority but… it was more of “weapons” than “guns” since he used other stuff too. Plus, Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 also had shooting in it as the fans requested it but they originally thought it wasn’t appropriate for the series and thus put it in through the machines and robots. Shadow The Hedgehog was the first and only time they actually listened to the fans and gave him an actual gun. x_x) I know that sounded ridiculous but it turns out a lot of these cheesey ideas are from the fans themselves… SEGA is finally learning to only take technical advice from fans. XD

    First off… DANG this is long. XD
    Secondly, I’m not trying to put down all your reasonings since I DID ask you to give an example. I’m just responding to them. Take it as you will, I’m just giving my opinion on the bits you mentioned. Some I agree with, some I don’t, but you don’t have to agree with me.

    As for his story, I liked it until they gave a lame excuse for bringing him back. I’d much rather they didn’t try to play the “should I do the right thing?” in such a crappy way after ALREADY doing it so well in SA2. I, and many others, found the story of SA2 to be one of the best for as serious as it was and actually affective, especially morally. It seems being an outcast is his charm as he can get used to the crowd and become part of the family. The way I see it, SEGA’s character roster merely shows indiscrimination and diversity. =)

    Now, sorry everyone for this REALLY long comment. (especially Kacey who keeps getting on my case about it. ;n; ) We’ll try to make them shorter now on. >.<

  80. @Kacey (& ChaotixFox)

    Hey just cuz we had a small disagreement or discussion doesn’t mean I’m trying to be your enemy. It happens, that’s life. D: People disagree. It’s all good. XD ChaoticFox doesn’t think Shadow is a good character. We think he is. Big whoop. I dunno if he thinks we’re arguing but I’m just figurin’ stuff out, talking to him… granted I’m talking a lot and won’t do so anymore… o-o

    Fagetta’bout it! Merry Christmas Eve and Happy Holidays. =p

  81. @Ax

    I er never said you were my enemy…but now you mention it….Lol it’s jsut were not on teh good terns atm You youu still make me ARGGGGHHHHH LOOOOL I’m gonna saayyyayya aaaah

    ….Merry Christmas πŸ™‚ xxx

  82. Jesus Christ that’s a lot of text XD

    First up: Kacey. I’m sure I may have made a typo or two, but I most certainly did not mistakenly use the incorrect form of “your”. It’s not my fault if you guys don’t understand pronoun usage.

    @Blaze

    I’m saying he is a poorly designed character. Of course I’m going to address his looks! That’s an integral part of the word “design”. Pay attention, please.

    @Ax

    The shadow image thing isn’t SURPRISING, it’s just lame and uncreative. Does it “work”? Sure… but the fact that they chose that cliche as the basis for their character creation is quite disappointing. Even moreso when they gave him all the same abilities and no real distinguishing characteristics besides his “ultimate power” and brooding personality. It’s just flat out lazy, and that lack of creativity or originality is a huge part of what makes him a poorly designed character.

    As I said before: sure it may appeal to that crowd, but that doesn’t mean that that crowd has a well developed understanding of character development or an appreciation for GOOD DESIGN. They are more likely to like what’s trendy, cliche, and “cool”, rather than something that is actually well written and unique.

    Like you said, a lot of this is “fan service”, and the fans they seemed to be catering to clearly don’t have very good ideas on what makes a strong, unique, well designed character. There has to be a balance between listening to the fans and using your own good judgment as a developer/designer. Especially when you’re taking your cues from a generally younger demographic.

    As for the story: I’m with you. In SA2 it didn’t MATTER so much that he was a “shadow image character copy” or that he was a genetic experiment. It was kind of a silly story (certain parts of it anyway), but it worked… I had no major issues with it. But once they started giving him this insanely ludicrous backstory and further showing off his DBZ superpowers in games like Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog that they really started to ruin him.

    That’s essentially why I hate him. They took a tired concept that worked well as a one-shot and instead of leaving it alone as a decent story-centric character, they chose to keep him by bringing him back, making him MORE ridiculous, and then trying to incorporate him into a cast of characters and a universe that quite frankly would be better off without him. There’s no need or room for a Sonic clone now that the events of SA2 have concluded, and his ridiculously silly and over-the-top backstory doesn’t quite belong in the generally simplistic Sonic Universe. Sonic as a series needs to lighten up on the ancient prophecy world-shattering bullshit and go back to simpler stories like Colors. That’s another big part of why Shadow doesn’t fit – he represents those more outrageous story concepts, being one himself, and Sonic desperately needs to step away from that direction.

    Yes, there are other bad characters. Big’s voice and personality are obviously someone’s bad idea of a joke, and yet I consider him to be one of the better designed characters from a purely artistic standpoint. Gamma is hardly even a “character” so much as a plot device. I honestly don’t even get why people mention him in character discussions. The list goes on. I can make complaints about canonical changes they’ve made with other established characters (I HATE what they’ve done to Tails ever since SA1) as well.

    For what it’s worth, I think Jet is a great rival. He’s unique, he’s creative, and he’s got the perfect attitude. He works as an original rival-type character without resorting to the cop out “shadow image” cliche. He’s his own character, and he’s not a genetically engineered antithesis. Sonic needs true rivalry, not the concocted kind.

  83. CONTRIVED! That’s the word I wanted!

    Listen, if you wanna continue this discussion (or sany other discussion), try visiting the link attached to my username. You can send me a note on DA or something, rather than clogging up this article’s comment section with our debate.

  84. @Kacey XD Merry Christmas to you too.

    @ChaoticFox

    I know sorry. XD; lol

    I wasn’t talking about any typos. I don’t mind those. Everyone has mishaps be it their fault or their keyboard’s. XD (Or they type too fast). I always wasn’t picking at your grammar usage of the word. It’s not really necessary except in the work places and representation. =p

    I’m sure it isn’t original or suprising, but it was expected. And as long as it’s expected it mine as well be done. Now it has. I actually consider him having Sonic’s abilities as a plus. They’re the only 2 characters to be pretty much exactly alike but different characters. It’s like a twin. He’s like you but not you. I also liked his original personality. He was the only one to not express himself so foolishly compared to the others. And he also shows another take on the same will to never give up that Sonic has. He’s the first character to be actually think about protecting the innocent rather than just stopping the bad guy. He’s the guy who stands for making up for the wrongs of one’s past. I actually find that useful and necessary for any franchise to have. I mean, is Tails a more original character? The little brother-like sidekick who looks up to the hero? The right hand man techy? The child genius? That’s 3 cliches in one. lol

    I think what appeals to the audience is at least more important that good character developement if what you say is true. I mean, the point of making a character is TO appeal to the audience. What are the guidelines of making a “good” character of that only leads to characters that no one cares about and fails anyways? I guess Mario is a bad character too then, but who cares? XD

    Well that’s what I’m saying. I liked Shadow in SA2. That’s just one game. I’m not gonna lie… everything after SA2 was pretty lame regarding Shadow. But then again it sorta started lacking in pretty much everything around that time. Maybe he’ll get better in the near (or distant) future of the franchise. =)

    I agree that his backstory was a ridiculous addition, but I really think his continuation in the series was appropriate since he was never meant to leave the series (despite popular belief and rumor). I think that confusion was all because of Sonic saying “he gave his life”. Honestly, his “death” was unfitting to the rest of that game to me. There was no reason for him to “die” in the first place. Personally, I just think his continuation should gone down different. I would’ve much prefered if they had done original new plots rather than reusing an old one only doing worse, or at LEAST make his backstory fitting of the previous chapters. lol

    Though I liked Colors, I think it was a little TOO simple. Not as simple as Unleashed and not world-shattering like…Unleashed XD, so it was better than that, but it was still a little TOO cartoony for me still. I prefer the style of the Adventure series and classic games. Basically serious but not necessarily “dark”. I guess Colors DID do that (with what Eggman was doing with the Wisps) but it was portrayed a bit too lightly for it (As in it felt almost unimportant compared to Chaos or the Death Egg. They weren’t an any real danger, at least none that wasn’t portrayed as a joke or pointed out within the story)

    I actually think Big is underrated. He represents the simple life of nature that Knuckles has forgotten about, yet he is hated for existing which feels a bit discriminating and harsh. (he’s actually been revealed to not be stupid, just lazy and uncivilized) He isn’t used for much though so it’s not like he’s in the way. lol

    Thing about Jet is he IS a perfect rival to Sonic and the only TRUE rival so far. But he plays ON the rival cliche as he’s obsessed with competing with Sonic and beating him and only him (regardless of if there’s anyone else just as challenging or more. lol) In Zero Gravity, taking out much of the comic relief effect from the first game, they do reveal him to be pretty aggressive which is kinda cool I guess. =p

  85. @ChaoticFox

    Umm..okay. XD I posted my last long response before seeing that so okay I will continue there I guess. o.o Or you can continue first or whatever. =p

  86. @Ax and ChaoticFox

    Hold it you 2 Blokes!!! save the hugs and kisses for later cuz I ain’t Finished yet so safe your fingers >_> (in other words Breath!)

    Right now if I could describe him in lyrics Shadow The Hedgehog is a caring character, dark and mysterious, he chooses his own path yeh he can be harsh at times but deep deep down He has a heart a heart of gold he’s a loving character takes matter in his own hands, he won’t give up till he’s got it done and over with, from A chaos stirke to a lightning blast he takes out those who cross his path, the ultimate lifeform you dare awake alas a spark could kill you with a Chaos spear, he’s as fast as Sonic but shows many more talents hidden far away…Up front with this Hog he is a Legend, A worthy Hero named Shadow The Hedgehog the Ultimate Life Form saver of Earth and what else can I say beware of your errors disobey

    Then Unleash CHAOS CONTROLL!!!!!

    And that’s the only Half of it I ain’t done yet πŸ˜‰ Yultan Sabber!! XD

    In My opinion Jason Griffith was the True voice of Shadow (And Sonic and Jet for that Matter) no one can replace him for me or the true voice cast for that matter too….

    Merry Christmas Boys xxxx

  87. @C.J.

    I know… I know. You hate all the new voices. =p lol To me they’re all too similar to really hate. They’re more similar to the 4kids cast than the 4kids cast was to the previous one which is really saying something since all other voices of the main characters were much more different from the game voices than the 4kids cast was. lol

    Well, except Amy and Shadow. Can’t stand Amy and Shadow.. I like one thing about it a little more but one thing about it a LOT less. >.< Jet isn't TOO different for me but… ironically I do like his Zero Gravity voice better. I don't hate his current voice, it just fits Tobi (Naruto) a LOT better than it fits Jet to me. XD But I guess it's as close as they could get. =p

  88. @Ax

    Yeah I suppose some are similar and yeah it will take some time getting use to :/ I’ll just need to adjust to it somehow or wait to see if they improve in the future…but I know Ryan and Jason weren’t exactly perfect on their dubt performances but in most scenes in games they were actually listenable than the V/As now…

    I only like Vector’s voice for now but we’ll see if they improve like the previous V/A Casts did I really hate the way The actors were being treated so badly >_<

    I can agree with you on Shadow and Amy definately but my worst top 3 is Rouge,Cream and Amy and the rest are even further I haven't got the chance to hear Wave and Storm properly though

    @Kacey

    Uh…….. should I…… um…….. even ask? lol

    Merry Christmas Guys πŸ˜‰

  89. @Ax

    Thank You I had a listen and actually their not bad but I still prefer the previous voices but perhaps they will improve in time and I agree I liked Bella Hudson’s voice better (of both Blaze and Wave) she was also did really well as Maria back in SHth her early performances

    I actually like Rouge’s old voice (4Kids Caren Manuel) she had something her deep voice really put a spark in to the character and her personality and not all girls will sound young and girly some may have deep voices in their Teenage years , for me Lani was too whingy and girly and Karen doesn’t really add anything special to be honest but listenable I guess but not really much….

    I think Kate Higgins tries to hard to Make Tails sound like a boy (In Colours) but she is not bad but something is still off eh…. I Still prefer Tails with a higher voice but maybe change could be good and for Travis trying to imitate Dan Green proves that Dan is the better actor for Knuckles and he didn’t make Knuckles sound angry all the time just most times and when Travis tries to be like Dan it sometimes comes wrong and he goes squeaky like Kunckles is on a period or something XD

    I like Vector’s voice more now I think it’s the best one yet along with Dan and Marc and he sounds a bit like 4Kids V/A but less high pitched, I like quite like Colleen as Charmy’s voice coz she sounds more natural and boyish as Charmy but I still like his 4Kids V/A better and Troy Baker as Espio ….he’s actually good but he doesn’t have that spark and power like David did for Espio so I still prefer David but we will see how he does in the future…

    I’m not too sure of Silver’s new voice he sounds more bold but still something is still off :L

    Shadow,Amy and Cream Blegh No! and for Roger…I think I’ll give him some time but for now….I only like Keith who voices Vector :/

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