Reaching Out To The Fans – The Black Knight Story

Reaching Out To The Fans – The Black Knight Story

sbk1Warning: This article contains spoilers to Sonic and the Black Knight.

A recent trend in Sonic games seems to be the increasing outreach to the online Sonic community, with today’s Sonic Team no longer the closed in studio it once was. There have been some good throwbacks to past games before – Sonic Heroes was a mish-mash of both classic and modern gameplay, with Chaotix (minus Mighty) making a welcome return. But Sonic Chronicles on the Nintendo DS marked the first time SEGA were willing to stretch a hand towards the community in terms of a game’s development.

BioWare produced a pretty sweet fan service in general in Sonic Chronicles’ dialogue, story and impressive knowledge of lore/filling in the blanks. The cherry on the cake was the studio allowing the online community to name an alien race in the game. On the back of that success, Sonic Team seem to have taken futher steps, by including easter eggs in Sonic Unleashed in the hidden Dreamcast, and acknowledging the chilidog as Sonic’s official favourite snack.

The Japanese studio took another step with Sonic and the Black Knight, but it’s more than the obvious. SEGA held a contest around the world to include some pieces of fan artwork into the latest Wii adventure. The result is an awesome set of slideshows that feature a bunch of American, European and Japanese work. Even the outcome of a discrepency in one of the European entries resulted in a fair and responsive reaction from ArchAngelUK, which really just adds to how far SEGA and Sonic Team are willing to go to put things right.

But it’s in other things as well. A lot of fans had lamented the lack of Crush 40 and Jun Senoue in their Sonic games, and while it never detracted from the sublime Sonic Unleashed soundtrack, many still felt like it had been too long between hearing that familiar guitar twang. As a result Crush 40 performed two tracks as if the game was canon, and invited Richard Jacques (Sonic 3D on the Saturn, Sonic R), Tommy Tallarico (Earthworm Jim) and even Howard Drossin (Sonic Spinball, Sonic 3 & Knuckles) to complement them. If sat in a room together, it would provide the ultimate audio tag team for sure, and a testament to how far Sonic Team want to go to impress the fanbase.

But dig deeper in Sonic and the Black Knight and you’ll find some of the biggest reaching out to the fanbase is in the semantics of the entire story. In one of the final cutscenes, you see Merlina in a twisted, deformed state, trying to maintain the ‘perfect image’ of the land of Camelot. When Sonic confronts her, a trade-off reveals that generations before her failed to keep the peace, and without the intervention of the evil King Arthur, things would have fallen apart anyway given rivalries between the Knights.

The only way to restore the land to a perfect kingdom for Merlina, is to recreate it in her (now jaded) image. Sonic jumps in and screams that nothing lasts forever, and questions the meaning of life if nothing ever changes. “Sounds pretty lame if you ask me”, he retorts.

sbk-review3

This moral not only speaks to the kids enjoying the game in a way that only an Aesop Fable can, but it also connects to the older players. Those who enjoyed Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles on their Mega Drives as kids, but now only seem to react to modern games with a sneer. The jaded, older Sonic fan is Merlina, wanting to recreate Sonic in their vision – it might not always be distorted, but it’s a natural reaction given that the comparable loss that the Sonic fan feels is in Sonic 06.

Just as Merlina feels her past generation has failed her, and finds that she must think of her own way of reviving the land, so too must older Sonic fans feel that the old Sonic Team has failed in providing an enjoyable experience. While the quality of Sonic Heroes is debatable but forgiven due to the successes of the Adventure series, many fans feel that since SA2 it’s been “all downhill from here”. It doesn’t help that the ‘Knights of the Round Table’ in this case – Yuji Naka, Naoto Oshima and Hirokazu Yasuhara – all disbanded just as Lancelot, Galahad and Percival once did, leaving a struggling Sonic Team to cope with the demands of a next generation title with great expectations.

As an older fan, playing through modern games can be a fun experience but that ultimate loss felt has a near-permanently negative impact – seen in various damning comments made against Sonic Unleashed (an altogether pretty good game, but game quality let it down in various departments). As a result, there’s a notion that any future Sonic title – regardless of actual objective quality – will be seen with negativity and calls of “Sonic with a Sword? I can do better than that”.

If any underlying message to fans is to be gleaned from this interpretation, it’s certainly not one of deference, ignorance or “talk to the hand, because we’re going to systematically ruin Sonic”. It is simply a plea of acceptance. The new Sonic Team know that they cannot recreate the ‘perfect’ life that the classic games (Camelot) once meant to you, but instead wishing for a return to the roots may cause more problems than it will solve. It’s an offer by Sonic Team to make Sonic as interesting as possible, by attacking the perception of generic Sonic concepts that some may argue is held by classic fans.

And if we look at recent games, you can see that the premises have not been that bad. Sonic Unleashed provided an amazing plotline that, while Dark Gaia proved to be quite cheesy at the end, was made all the more enjoyable by the awesome intro sequence and the amusing introduction of Chip. Sonic Rush Adventure takes Sonic to a new world – certainly not the ‘Mobius’ many would like to see – but Marine is admirable, Blaze is still as cool as always and the premise for the handheld title remains the best in recent years.

With Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic with a Sword sounded like a bad idea at first (and we admit – and now retract – saying it was a totally crap idea) but in the confines of the Storybook universe – as a spinoff game, and as a premise in and of itself – it works perfectly well. The story is one that truly shines, especially since we’re actually analysing it right now, while graphically and casually it’s a game that you can really appreciate. It’s just a shame the most important element – the gameplay – is severely lacking.

sbk-review5

However bad the interpretation of Merlina appears to make the jaded, older fan be though, remember what happens at the very end of the game. Merlina is not persecuted and not totally destroyed by Sonic. Instead, she is comforted in her sadness and accepted as a friend. If we follow this idea that the older fan is Merlina here, this is Sonic Team’s way of saying “You’re not wrong for feeling bad about the series, you’re not a real bad guy; a bad experience has simply taken you off the rails a little bit”. Sonic in this instance… well, it’s open to interpretation, but I like to think it’s the modern Sonic fan picking the classic fan up, dusting them off and saying “Hey, I know some games in the series have been crap, but it’s not all bad. I don’t hate you”. It’s the perfect end to both Sonic and Merlina’s relationship, as is the connection between classic and modern Sonic fan.

On a personal level, I review Sonic games because I love Sonic the Hedgehog. I know that Sonic 06 was poor, but that hasn’t stopped me from enjoying the (decent) latest releases with an open mind and a spring in my step. The dangers that I – along with many older fans – face is the possibility of believing that if we come across a poorly crafted Sonic game, that it means the series is declining into ruin. The danger of the modern fan, who frequently argues with the jaded fan to the point where flamewars escalate, is in becoming overly defensive and denying the success of “Camelot”.

And in this, Black Knight gives us the greatest moral of all. The point being that modern and classic fans can in fact get along, despite their differing opinions and thoughts. Some fans don’t like how Sonic has changed, others are enjoying the intricate set-pieces and alternative gameplay. And in the middle Sonic Team is offering an extended arm to say “We’re not like the old ways, but we will keep trying to make this kingdom just as enjoyable as the last”. Obviously as a gaming experience the Sonic games since have failed in that mission so far, but at least we know that Sonic Team aren’t doing it just to annoy us all. Although as a gaming experience Sonic and the Black Knight leaves a lot to be desired, in its story it’s truly one of the biggest messages Sonic Team has ever made to its fanbase.

Published by

Dreadknux

Sexy founder of The Sonic Stadium, and creator and co-organiser of the Summer of Sonic fan convention. By day, I'm a super-fantastic games journalist, el professionale. By night, I'm the mother-loving Sonical Batman. I keep the site ticking, look after the TSS Network, and get all excited about Sonic games so that you can too. May contain nuts.

84 Comments

  1. See? Sonic Team does care!

    And I shall quote Svend saying that “Marine is admirable” as one of the best things I’ve ever heard.

  2. and one more thing:
    sonic get hit from merlina time after time and still he will fight (make games)
    even with a brocken sword (another gameplay idea what is not about classic)
    and some day sonic will find a new better gameplay wich lets him transform into Excalibur-sonic.
    and he wll finish evryone who says he should give up!!
    good job by the way!

  3. That’s a pretty deep meaning right there, most games don’t have that deep of a story. It’s incredible.

  4. This is a great way to look at the ending of Sonic and the Black Knight, Dread. I assure you that not many people would have been able to see the symbolism unless it was presented in such a level-headed and well-educated manner. You managed to mend one of the most gouging rips in the perception of the fanbase that man people including myself have had. Surely, no Sonic fan is really a bad one, not many at least. I like to think of myself as a general fan of the series, paying attention to the gameplay, character development, music, environment and story. Some of the more classic fans pay attention to the gameplay moreso than the other variables I’ve listed, and some of the more modern fans might be prone to hail the more complex stories and character development than actual gameplay. The underlying issue is that no one really knows how to fix Sonic for everyone. Once we realize this, band together, hold eachother up when we fall like you’ve said, we can become a more wonderful community and a happier fanbase. And who knows; that may be the key to making TSS that vessel for the bridge between the fans and the game producers that you’ve been dreaming about! Maybe we get a lot of fanservice nowadays, however, in my mindset, we won’t get much farther unless we drop the senseless bashing and pessimism in favor of a more supporting ego, which would certainly encourage Sonic Team to listen to us more.

    All in all, that was beautifully written, and you certainly aren’t the top dog of the Sonic community for nothing. At least in my point of view!

  5. I agree with everything apart from the whole “Unleashed was amazing” deal. Not like that matters, anyway.

    Most sensible thing that’s come out of TSS ever, IMO.

  6. I can’t help but agree with this, yes Sonic has had some bad games in the past and I think a lot of older fans let that colour there opinion of newer/up-coming games a bit too much. Each game should be taken on there own merit rather than the weight of past games.

  7. I liked that. Very deep, this is something that can change peoples “opinions” or more like they see Sonic in an other angeal(I think i’d spell that wrong), I don’t know if you have that in america but we say something in that way in sweden so I don’t know if you will understand what I just said.(Don’t get me wrong)
    You should make more stuff like this I think.

    P.S. Merlina is awsome.XD

  8. …OMG…You’re right. You’re so totally right. Man…I mean…just…wow. This…this will change a lot of things in the Sonic fandom. That’s what I believe anyway.
    Now if only they could get the game play back up to snuff, eh? LOL

  9. Very well written article, kudos! You did a very good job with that analysis, I knew SatBK had some sort of hidden meaing! All I have to say now is…: Wow.

  10. Thank you, just, thank you, the sonic community really does need a kick up the ass and this was exactly what it needed, in all honesty, the gamer of today wants deep story line with twists and turns at every corner which keeps them hooked and having their finger primed squarely on the shoot button. One thing about that though, is that they’re all 16+ games and stuff doing that, looking at my Unleashed box, it says 7+. The games are not adult oriented, some fans really do need to take into account that they really aren’t the target audience any more and get the hell over their problem. The games are still fun and agreed, though the games aren’t Mario Galaxy perfection, they’re still fun (albeit ’06 was indeed a let down).

  11. Whilst you do raise some good points (I did read through the whole thing), one certain bit kinda made my blood boil a little:
    “The dangers that I – along with many older fans – face is the possibility of believing that if we come across a poorly crafted Sonic game, that it means the series is declining into ruin”.

    Just because a Sonic game isn’t as good as you hoped it does not – and I repeat, NOT – mean that the entire franchise is doomed to failure. Pretty much every video game franchise has had a game in its series that wasn’t upto scratch as the rest, and none of the fanbo-I mean, “fanbases” complained about their series going to pot. They just moved along as they would.

    Quoting a video I watched on YouTube about the fanbase:
    “People were s—ing on the entire Sonic franchise when Sonic 06 came out. And then when SatSR came out and some people said ‘hey this is kinda fun’, they automatically lightened up on the entire franchise except for Sonic 06; it’s kind of like the ‘Halloween III’ of the franchise: Some people like it, but everyone else goes ‘it’s just not Sonic’.”

    On a mild tangent, Sonic ’06 is by no means perfect; Hell, I bought it a few weeks ago KNOWING that it wouldn’t be the ultimate Sonic game. But I still enjoy playing it.
    (“Sonic and the Black Knight” I honestly have no intentions of getting; I used to be a huge fan of the Sonic series.. but the fanboys have really ruined the experience for me when Unleashed came out. Now I’m simply a fan)

  12. *Claps*
    That is one of the greatest theories that I have ever read in Sonic fan history. I was sorta thinking the same way after playing SATBK.

    Thank you dearly, Svend.

  13. I think you’re probably looking too deep into this, but hey, it worked! XD Great article and a great way of looking at Sonic Team. I hope plenty of Sonic “fans” look at this and get a bit of a clue. 🙂

    While there’s definitely been issues with recent Sonic games, it’s not like ST’s not trying.

  14. This is a great interpretation.
    On the gamefaqs boards, there are ALOT of haters who think this article is stupid, but its interesting.

  15. I had these exact thoughts while watching the ending to this game. Of course I don’t like SatBK but it definitely speaks volumes about the fan base. I just hope this doesn’t make the fans give up on fan made games. We may not have to out-beat Sonic team in making a decent Sonic game, but we can at least go back to the classics once in a while with fan-games. Y’know?

  16. That is one of the greatest theories that I have ever read in Sonic fan history. I was sorta thinking the same way after playing SATBK.

    This.

  17. …Y’know, I never really did understand the ending’s moral. But thanks once again to TSS for helping to shed some light on the subject in another enjoyable, well-written article.

  18. Wow, that’s deep. I mean REALLY deep. I think anyone who has/will read it has/will stop and think, “Hmm, he does have a point.” Personally, I think every Sonic fan should read this article because it shows in a nutshell the relationship between older and newer Sonic fans and maybe, just maybe, could stop a lot of the arguments and flamewars going on. Amazing work, Svend Joscelyne. ^-^

  19. NICE! I was trying to see what the final cutscenes moral was, this might not be it, but I like to believe it is.

    To the addition of Eggman123, the broken sword might be a broken concept, but the it still has an edge to it (considering that not every bit of a single concept is horrible). Also wouldn’t Excalibur-Sonic just make peace between everyone insteed of beating them up.

  20. this is a soothing peice to read, really it is.
    if I knew you IRL we’d be great friends, because great minds think alike.

  21. Wow, Svend! That was a great message you noticed! I noticed this before you, actually. I never published this message before you because I probably wouldn’t reach the rest of the world by myself. You deserve a cookie, and some soup of your choice.

  22. Thanks for makin’ the write on this~ It feels good for someone to finally acknowledge the concepts and deeper meanings of the struggle to maintain the name of the game. Despite I haven’t played SATBK yet (I reeeeeally want to still despite reviews and personal opinions)- I say you explained the thought alot better than I have.

    Plus the reference helped~

  23. *The only way to restore the land to a perfect kingdom for Merlina, is to recreate it in her (now jaded) image. Sonic jumps in and screams that nothing lasts forever, and questions the meaning of life if nothing ever changes.

    “Sounds pretty lame if you ask me”, he retorts.*

    Then Sonic should die if he feels that way.
    Sonic himself is also lame these days.

    *This moral not only speaks to the kids enjoying the game in a way that only an Aesop Fable can, but it also connects to the older players.*

    It certainly doesn’t do the latter and I sincerely doubt the kids will be reading in to the “deep meaning”.

    *Those who enjoyed Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles on their Mega Drives as kids, but now only seem to react to modern games with a sneer.*

    For obvious reasons. They know some things rather obvious is missing.

    *The jaded, older Sonic fan is Merlina, wanting to recreate Sonic in their vision – it might not always be distorted, but it’s a natural reaction given that the comparable loss that the Sonic fan feels is in Sonic 06.*

    The games have been lacking since before 06 and have been lacking since the following of that game as well.

    *Just as Merlina feels her past generation has failed her, and finds that she must think of her own way of reviving the land, so too must older Sonic fans feel that the old Sonic Team has failed in providing an enjoyable experience.*

    Sounds like they are just distorting things a bit. Merlina could be the newbs who hate the original ways and wish to to wipe it out with mere pretty silhouettes.

    *While the quality of Sonic Heroes is debatable but forgiven due to the successes of the Adventure series, many fans feel that since SA2 it’s been “all downhill from here”.*

    Because it has. There is really nothing to defend.

    *It doesn’t help that the ‘Knights of the Round Table’ in this case – Yuji Naka, Naoto Oshima and Hirokazu Yasuhara – all disbanded just as Lancelot, Galahad and Percival once did, *

    Oh please.

    *leaving a struggling Sonic Team to cope with the demands of a next generation title with great expectations.*

    Sonic Team aren’t struggling though. They are getting away with pretty much anything.
    They’ve even openly admitted to not actually trying to recapture what people liked about the originals

    *As an older fan, playing through modern games can be a fun experience but that ultimate loss felt has a near-permanently negative impact – seen in various damning comments made against Sonic Unleashed (an altogether pretty good game, but game quality let it down in various departments).*

    Yes, because having mediocre or bad quality in various departments isn’t a warrant for disapproval at all. -_-

    *As a result, any future Sonic title – regardless of actual objective quality – will be seen with negativity and calls of “Sonic with a Sword? I can do better than that”.*

    If that were true then not many would be complaining.
    This Black Knight game in particular, is pretty sad.
    With or without the sword. Blatantly proven in the Legacy levels.
    Do you guys even care about gameplay? This game is just a prettier Tazmania from the SNES. Not only is it not Sonic, its a regression to 16bit era gameplay that isn’t isn’t Sonic.
    People need to realise that the mere act of change shouldn’t just be accepted when its not necessary or absent of reason. Change also shouldn’t be frivolous.
    Things should evolve, not just outright change. Its pathetic to use Sonic as an avatar of “change” when they aren’t even getting rid of him altogether and opting to make new IPS. They might as well just absolve the character and the dev team if that is what they were trying to say with the message of this game.

    *If any underlying message to fans is to be gleaned from this interpretation, it’s certainly not one of deference, ignorance or “talk to the hand, because we’re going to systematically ruin Sonic”.*

    If this is Sega’s message of “change” then that is exactly what they are saying.

    *It is simply a plea of acceptance.*

    If its a plea then its probably to the newbs not the older fans, since Sonic games already sell anyway.

    *The new Sonic Team know that they cannot recreate the ‘perfect’ life that the classic games (Camelot) once meant to you, but instead wishing for a return to the roots may cause more problems than it will solve. It’s an offer by Sonic Team to make Sonic as interesting as possible, by attacking the perception of generic Sonic concepts that some may argue is held by classic fans.*

    Thats pathetic. Aren’t these guys supposed to be professional developers?
    They can’t even do some of the simplest **** thats laid out in the damn link in my sig? Stuff that was possible even back in the damn 32 bit era?
    I don’t buy that ****. I honestly just think they don’t give a **** because they are making money no matter what they do. They just want to keep hammering that fact in by trying to inform the newbs of this. If they are in fact really trying to send a message.

    *And if we look at recent games, you can see that – throwing gameplay and actual game quality out of the window – it’s not been that bad.*

    Uh what the the HELL? You mean aside from the gameplay and actual game quality, the ESSENTIALS for a damn videogame, everything is just hunky dory? So you guys are just content with Sonic’s mere image or something? Thats like mere children mesmerized by his cartoon image and hijinks. What a joke.

    *Sonic Unleashed provided an amazing plotline that, while Dark Gaia proved to be quite cheesy at the end, was made all the more enjoyable by the awesome intro sequence and the amusing introduction of Chip. Sonic Rush Adventure takes Sonic to a new world – certainly not the ‘Mobius’ many would like to see – but Marine is admirable, Blaze is still as cool as always and the premise for the handheld title remains the best in recent years.*

    Mobius is pretty non existant in the original games in the first damn place and all this crap here is irrelevant to gameplay. You know, the priority of a damn game.

    *Sonic and the Black Knight, despite its actual gameplay, is not that bad a title in its mere concept either.*

    Oh my dear lord, I was hoping that I just misinterpreted their earlier claim but this just confirms it. Have you guys lost it? Despite the GAMEPLAY, the game is fine?
    What?

    *Sonic with a Sword sounded like a bad idea at first (and we admit – and now retract – saying it was a totally crap idea) *

    Yeah it was a totally crap idea that couldn’t even muster a worthwhile execution. The developers could have at least done something better with the whole concept.

    * but in the confines of the Storybook universe – as a spinoff game, and as a premise in and of itself – it works perfectly well.*

    Yeah, cosmetically but apprently not where it counts huh guys.

    *The story is one that truly shines, especially since we’re actually analysing it right now, while graphically and casually it’s a game that you can really appreciate.*

    Maybe if you are in the second grade. The story isn’t even fanfiction.net worthy.

    *However bad this appears to make the jaded, older fan be though, remember what happens at the very end of the game. Merlina is not persecuted and not totally destroyed by Sonic. Instead, she is comforted in her sadness and accepted as a friend.*

    Except this game does no comforting. It just instills more junk that I’d rather not be playing.

    *If we follow this idea that the older fan is Merlina here, this is Sonic Team’s way of saying “You’re not wrong for feeling bad about the series, you’re not a real bad guy; a bad experience has simply taken you off the rails a little bit”. *

    If Sonic Team is admitting to being bad then thats pretty damn sorry and inexcusable TBQH.

    *Sonic in this instance… well, it’s open to interpretation, but I like to think it’s the modern Sonic fan picking the classic fan up, dusting them off and saying “Hey, I know some games in the series have been crap, but it’s not all bad. I don’t hate you”. It’s the perfect end to both Sonic and Merlina’s relationship, as is the connection between classic and modern Sonic fan.*

    Its more like seeing Metallica or ACDC turn into the Jonas Brothers. and the Jonas Brother fans trying to throw their weight around in a realm that they don’t actually even understand, thinking their input is worthwhile.

    *On a personal level, I review Sonic games because I love Sonic the Hedgehog.*

    This is just confirming what I’ve been saying for the longest. Sonic sells because there are people that are simply drawn to Sonic’s image. Here you guys are admitting to the gameplay not being so good but you enjoy it anyway because Sonic and friends picture is on the damn thing.

    *I know that Sonic 06 was poor, but that hasn’t stopped me from enjoying the latest releases with an open mind and a spring in my step.*

    Despite the fact that you apprently admitted to not liking the gameplay in the latest releases.

    *The dangers that I – along with many older fans – face is the possibility of believing that if we come across a poorly crafted Sonic game, that it means the series is declining into ruin.*

    No its already declined into that. The danger faced is that its apparently not pulling itself out of ruin. The games are still boring or just plain awful.

    *The danger of the modern fan, who frequently argues with the jaded fan to the point where flamewars escalate, is in becoming overly defensive and denying the success of “Camelot”.*

    But they don’t matter because like you, they will just play anything with Sonic because the modern games already lack consisitency.

    *And in this, Black Knight gives us the greatest moral of all *

    If its the message you are pointing out then its poor.

    *- although as a gaming experience it leaves a lot to be desired, in its story it’s truly one of the biggest message Sonic Team has ever made to its fanbase.*

    Jesus Christ. You goes and dawg the gameplay again but absolve it because of its story? It seems you guys just want to watch a cartoon. I sincerely hope this whole article was a joke.

  24. @Mali-jube: GameFAQs? Oh no.

    @Neo 2.3: “Just because a Sonic game isn’t as good as you hoped it does not – and I repeat, NOT – mean that the entire franchise is doomed to failure. Pretty much every video game franchise has had a game in its series that wasn’t upto scratch as the rest, and none of the fanbo-I mean, “fanbases” complained about their series going to pot. They just moved along as they would.”

    That’s why I said it was a danger. Not a truthism.

    @john588: “Uh what the the HELL? You mean aside from the gameplay and actual game quality, the ESSENTIALS for a damn videogame, everything is just hunky dory? So you guys are just content with Sonic’s mere image or something? Thats like mere children mesmerized by his cartoon image and hijinks. What a joke.”

    You obviously weren’t paying attention to the many many people who hate TSS because we “hate the modern games” then.

    Of course, as I said, the games leave a lot – a lot – to be desired in the gameplay department. But this article isn’t about the gameplay, for a change. It’s about trying to strike something positive in the Sonic game series. And if you want to peg us down for that and say we’ve lost the plot, then between you and the people that hate us for disliking poor gameplay mechanics, it seems we just can’t win.

    Par for the course with the Sonic fanbase, I guess. Yes, the games aren’t too hot gameplay wise, but you could try to lighten up.

    @Impossible: You don’t like Marine? What the hell is wrong with YOU? 😉

  25. You obviously weren’t paying attention to the many many people who hate TSS because we “hate the modern games” then.

    This is more about you guys apparently saying to disregard gameplay and enjoy the games anyway. What kind of crap is that?

    Of course, as I said, the games leave a lot – a lot – to be desired in the gameplay department.

    GAMEPLAY is like the most important part of a VIDEOGAME.

    But this article isn’t about the gameplay,

    Then its worthless.

    for a change. It’s about trying to strike something positive in the Sonic game series.

    You say it isn’t about gameplay then talk about sparking something positive in the game series or which priority is the GAMEPLAY.

    And if you want to peg us down for that and say we’ve lost the plot, then between you and the people that hate us for disliking poor gameplay mechanics, it seems we just can’t win.

    Plot? No I’m only concerned with the real issues of the games the gameplay. Not the plot.

    Par for the course with the Sonic fanbase, I guess. Yes, the games aren’t too hot gameplay wise, but you could try to lighten up.

    The gameplay is the things I have a problem with as a long time fan of the series. Don’t tell me to lighten up. You are promoting a negligence to the issues with the gampeplay with that article. What happened to you guys? I was hoping that you all were joking but no, you are apparently serious.

  26. “This is more about you guys apparently saying to disregard gameplay and enjoy the games anyway. What kind of crap is that?”
    This is nothing to do with disregarding gameplay. This is about analysing the story to a game. What about that can’t you understand?

    “You say it isn’t about gameplay then talk about sparking something positive in the game series or which priority is the GAMEPLAY.”
    The Sonic fanbase is tearing itself apart. It’s not about gameplay, but how people percieve the Sonic series to be. The attempt in injecting something positive is in trying to stop the online fanbase from beating each other up. I’m not saying the Gameplay isn’t important at all. It’s just not pertinent to the discussion when you’re talking about the STORY of a game.

    “The gameplay is the things I have a problem with as a long time fan of the series.”
    Same here. Believe me, I agree with you. But, you can look at a game’s story and think “actually, the way they put that together wasn’t too bad”. This article is simply saying that there’s something positive in Sonic and the Black Knight. It might not be anything on the scale of importance, but it’s there.

    You’re getting all righteous about an article that focuses specifically on one aspect of a game. It’s even the name of the post if it confuses you (“The Black Knight STORY”). If Kotaku wrote an editorial about the political references in a game like Just Cause or BioShock, would it be fair to call them out because it ignores the actual gameplay? No it wouldn’t. This is the same difference.

    Man, you guys will just complain about anything won’t you?

  27. “Man, you guys will just complain about anything won’t you?”
    Tis human nature.

    I do wonder if you read too far into it, but hey, if we get something good out why do we complain.

  28. Wow, worlds come a long way, interesting article. I haven’t played a new sonic game since SR:A or SatSR, but I applaud Dread, because, when the fan base is like a dinosaur fight, he chooses to stand in the center, and asks us all to just get along.
    I think the fan base on a whole is a complete joke, and anyone who doesn’t know, I have been around for the entire ride. It is about time you all shape up. Though, bravo Dread, keep it up.

    Sonic has always, and will always, be an icon, he is more then a game, more then sales figures and reviews. He is so integrated in people for the right or wrong reasons, be it you think he is now the filth of the industry, or the gartest thing to hit the earth. People are tied to Sonic, and not the other way around.

    But how/when did you become the ambassador Dread?

  29. hmm is still think that is one of the greatest thing TSS did in this year.
    it shows that behind a crappy game is more than it looks like.
    the fact only gameplay lacks is right, now we have finaly easter eggs (like dreamcast in unleashed or the megadrive in chonicles
    we have the greatest graphics and some great efforts like the hedgehog engine in the games.
    only gameplay and i will say the next sonic game to his 20th birthday will be great!
    and btw sonic rush is probbably coming out at the end of this year.

  30. So these are the people just trying to start arguments? Heh.

    John, videogames these days are not just gameplay. There’s a lot of things that go into them. Of them, story is actually more noticeable that real play. And if plotlines and story aren’t important, then how come all the big reviewers concentrate on them? How come videogames have stories to begin with?

    They’re motivators. A good story means that you want to see the end; a bad story makes you turn off the console because you don’t want to hear any more of it. Or, if you’re one of the more unusual people, then a bad story can make you keep going to find more plotholes, more things that seem to have been crafted just because of the Rule of Cool, maybe even a bit that makes sense in the grand scheme. There’s a reason that the MGS series refers to them as movies you can influence yourself, no matter how insignificant your contribution is.

    And really, a game with nothing to motivate you to keep going?

    Heh. ‘“Sounds pretty lame if you ask me”, he retorts.’

    [i]Then Sonic should die if he feels that way.
    Sonic himself is also lame these days.[/i]

    …Yep, I see what Svend means. YIKES. You really are somebody who wants to cause spats. This is gamesradar-level arsery. Really. Sonic thinks something sounds lame, so he should die. Riiiiiiiight.

  31. I totally agree. Though i can’t play Black Knight cause i don’t have a wii I have watched with a mouth of awe. Sonic teaches us all a valuable lesson whether we’re old fan or new. Personally I’m a new fan for i prefer 3D (I even like 06) but I don’t hate the old. I mearly acknowledge them. of Course, Thats what i figure….

  32. Sonic and The Black Knight is the best Sonic game since Sonic Adventure 2.

    If it were a canon game with Unleashed gameplay, it would be the best 3D game in the series.

  33. Svend, this is THE single best article I have ever read on Sonic Stadium, or on any Sonic site for that matter. I think pretty deep into storylines, but I would’ve NEVER looked at it that way. Your analysis fits perfectly. And way to go for bringing some optimism into the Sonic fanbase. 😉

    john588, that’s fine if you think it’s all about gameplay. But it’s not a FACT that it’s all about gameplay, it’s only your opinion. Personally, my favorite part of the Sonic series are the plots. *shrugs* To each their own.

  34. This is nothing to do with disregarding gameplay. This is about analysing the story to a game. What about that can’t you understand?

    Which you are using as a message to promote a disregard to gameplay. Did you guys even read what you typed?

    The Sonic fanbase is tearing itself apart. It’s not about gameplay, but how people percieve the Sonic series to be.

    Gameplay is where the problems lie and what is the point of a videogame. If you want to disregard it and promote about inconsewquential stuff over gameplay then I suggest you stop talking about the Sonic games on this site all together and just make it a cartoon site.

    The attempt in injecting something positive is in trying to stop the online fanbase from beating each other up. I’m not saying the Gameplay isn’t important at all. It’s just not pertinent to the discussion when you’re talking about the STORY of a game.

    In your attempt to do this you don’t even have all your ducks in a row. It isn’t just old fans verses new fans, its also new fans verses new fans. The new fans have an enemey in eachother because of the inconsistency and polarization of the between each modern game. New fans are an ouraboras collective. And your message is basically telling people to ignore the gameplay.

    Same here. Believe me, I agree with you. But, you can look at a game’s story and think “actually, the way they put that together wasn’t too bad”. This article is simply saying that there’s something positive in Sonic and the Black Knight. It might not be anything on the scale of importance, but it’s there.

    If it has nothing to do with gameplay then there is nothing positve to be gained from that article because the gameplay is where the problem is. I’ve long since ceased caring about the story in Sonic games, especially since its pretty inconsequential to the gameplay. I just want the gameplay to be better.

    You’re getting all righteous about an article that focuses specifically on one aspect of a game.

    You need to go back and read what you guys typed. It would seem you aren’t too cognitive of what you’ve actually said.

    It’s even the name of the post if it confuses you (”The Black Knight STORY”). If Kotaku wrote an editorial about the political references in a game like Just Cause or BioShock, would it be fair to call them out because it ignores the actual gameplay? No it wouldn’t. This is the same difference.

    I don’t play site favorites and if they were saying, “Sure the gameplay was awesome but the storie’s message is blatant political propaganda so they fail and you shouldn’t like them” then I would indeed call them out.

    And your article fits that very style.

    Man, you guys will just complain about anything won’t you?

    What do you mean you guys? Anything? The god damned gameplay is being disregarded Its not as if I’m ranting randomly. This is the first time I even bothered to post on the comments because that article was just so flawed.

  35. So these are the people just trying to start arguments? Heh.

    So posting the truth is starting a fight?

    John, videogames these days are not just gameplay.

    There’s a lot of things that go into them. Of them, story is actually more noticeable that real play. And if plotlines and story aren’t im portant, then how come all the big reviewers concentrate on them? How come videogames have stories to begin with? They’re motivators. A good story means that you want to see the end; a bad story makes you turn off the console because you don’t want to hear any more of it. Or, if you’re one of the more unusual people, then a bad story can make you keep going to find more plotholes, more things that seem to have been crafted just because of the Rule of Cool, maybe even a bit that makes sense in the grand scheme. There’s a reason that the MGS series refers to them as movies you can influence yourself, no matter how insignificant your contribution is.

    And really, a game with nothing to motivate you to keep going?

    Gameplay is what separates a game from being a mere cartoon or show. Gamplay should take grand stage in the production of a game. And since this is where most of the Sonic games problems lie, its especially what should be addressed. Its sick that you apparently think its okay to disregard gameplay this much and to present such gross extreme scenarios as if I’m even saying cosmetic elments aren’t necessary.

    …Yep, I see what Svend means. YIKES. You really are somebody who wants to cause spats. This is gamesradar-level arsery. Really. Sonic thinks something sounds lame, so he should die. Riiiiiiiight.

    No, I’m don’t just pointing out the hypocristy of current Sonic the hedgehog saying this. You just want to point fingers
    and disregard the actual content Like the article disregarding the gameplay.

  36. john588, that’s fine if you think it’s all about gameplay. But it’s not a FACT that it’s all about gameplay, it’s only your opinion. Personally, my favorite part of the Sonic series are the plots. *shrugs* To each their own.

    Its people like you who are ruining games.

  37. Damn highlight glitch.

    John, videogames these days are not just gameplay.

    There’s a lot of things that go into them. Of them, story is actually more noticeable that real play. And if plotlines and story aren’t im portant, then how come all the big reviewers concentrate on them? How come videogames have stories to begin with? They’re motivators. A good story means that you want to see the end; a bad story makes you turn off the console because you don’t want to hear any more of it. Or, if you’re one of the more unusual people, then a bad story can make you keep going to find more plotholes, more things that seem to have been crafted just because of the Rule of Cool, maybe even a bit that makes sense in the grand scheme. There’s a reason that the MGS series refers to them as movies you can influence yourself, no matter how insignificant your contribution is.

    And really, a game with nothing to motivate you to keep going?

    Gameplay is what separates a game from being a mere cartoon or show. Gamplay should take grand stage in the production of a game. And since this is where most of the Sonic games problems lie, its especially what should be addressed. Its sick that you apparently think its okay to disregard gameplay this much and to present such gross extreme scenarios as if I’m even saying cosmetic elments aren’t necessary.

  38. Nice article, very well written. Personally I feel you’re looking a little too deeply into the subtext of Black Knight, but if this is what you honestly think, who’s to say you’re wrong.

    Again, great read. One of the better articles I’ve read here at the Stadium.

  39. Interesting reading of the plot. I still don’t think it excuses the stupid un-Sonic crap they’ve been shoehorning in the last few games, though (werewolves, angst, etc). Rush Adventure is the last real Sonic game I’ve seen recently. The console ones might as well be turned into a new series called “Hero Rodent in Story World”.

  40. i understand what john mean.
    i think too the problem is gameplay and sonic is about gameplay.
    but you must too accept that something else is important too
    things like music and graphic are the thing what decide if the game gets 80 % or 90%

    mgs is a great example evryone buys that game because of the story but the gameply isnt crap either.#so it shows again both sides are right.
    evrything is important even in a sonic game, but as long the gameplay is crap the game is stil crap.
    but mere gameplay alone doesnt make a game good, so the point here of TSS is sonic team dont screw up all of the sonic game only the most important thing. and i will still belive that ST can achieve good gameplay.
    they want to find they own good gameplay because they dont want to be guys who makes the same than the guy before.
    it is the fact that ST has sometimes stupid ideas (werehog, sword) but they also have great one i just say unleashed daytime. and remember the TSS blog about that sega dude woho said something about the next sonic game:
    more plattforming and optional charas.
    Sound good to me(=

  41. “I don’t play site favorites and if they were saying, “Sure the gameplay was awesome but the storie’s message is blatant political propaganda so they fail and you shouldn’t like them” then I would indeed call them out.”

    What a load of utter nonsense. If that site was analysing the story, they wouldn’t once mention the gameplay. They would be analysing the story on its own merit. Which is exactly what I’ve done here. You can write about a particular aspect of a game without calling into the question the rest of it, you know.

    … You do realise that, John, right? It seems the only thing you’re campaigning for is your own idiocy here.

    Now, tell me where I’ve even said the gameplay was awesome in any recent Sonic game in that article. Go on.

    You can’t. Because I didn’t. I have never once excused the crappy gameplay, and I even state that in the article. In layman’s terms, a lot of fans discount a game on face value because it’s “Sonic with a sword”. Now, had the gameplay actually been good, it would have been a good Sonic game. My point is that there’s no reason in arguing about how ‘Sonic should be’ in terms of premise, story and design. The modern games do an OK job in that respect – but yes, if you’re talking about gameplay, they all “leave a lot to be desired” and the series needs work to get back on its feet in that respect.

    But again, we’re not talking about the gameplay. 😉 And even if YOU want to, I’ve fully covered myself in agreeing the poor quality of gameplay – in so much that I have called them out on it. Gameplay is the most important aspect of a Sonic game (or in fact, any game), but it’s not the most important aspect of this article. You don’t like it? Don’t read it – there are other Blog posts and Articles on The Sonic Stadium that happily tear the latest games to shreds, and you can jolly yourself to those all day long if you want.

    I’m sorry you feel like you used your time effectively in typing those last 1000 words, but it was pure dribble based on the leaking of brain matter that led you to misinterpret this article in the first place. Read it properly, understand it, go back to Key Stage 3 English class, come back, read it again, and then you’ll understand a little bit.

    Anything you have left to say in argument is a nonsense, as you’re only going to reply to disturb the members of this website with your misunderstanding. I suggest you respond with a little less aggression if you’re going to debate this further – the way you have acted is laughable given you are the one with crossed wires here.

    Now, I think the page you’re really looking for is here.

  42. @john588:

    Dude, chill. You’re arguing for the sake of arguing. No one wants too hear it. This is the very thing we’re trying to move away from.

  43. John588, I must say what you just said is extremely…wow. I honestly have never seen a person go that far. If you were on any other site you’d….wow.

  44. It’s funny- I’ve always considered Shadow the Hedgehog of being Sonic Team’s way of telling the classic fans to put the past behind them and accept the present in the same way Shadow did. But I like this message better. Glad to see someone else sees deeper meaning in Sonic games.

  45. If Shadow was supposed to tell people to forget the past, they failed pretty hard on that account. XD

    If anything, its underlying was to laugh harder at the present. Shame, because I like Sonic Heroes.

  46. I enjoyed that article, it was a good read. Nice one Svend, it’s always good to see some positivity :F.

  47. What a load of utter nonsense. If that site was analysing the story, they wouldn’t once mention the gameplay. They would be analysing the story on its own merit. Which is exactly what I’ve done here. You can write about a particular aspect of a game without calling into the question the rest of it, you know.
    … You do realise that, John, right? It seems the only thing you’re campaigning for is your own idiocy here.

    You said the gameplay wasn’t very good. Thus you mentioned the gameplay. If the other guys had done what you did then I would be calling them out too.

    Now, tell me where I’ve even said the gameplay was awesome in any recent Sonic game in that article. Go on.
    You can’t. Because I didn’t.

    Pay attention, I didn’t say you said the gameplay was awesome. I noted that you said is was poor yet you were apprently glossing over this glaring issue for which a game is supposed to even revolve aqround. Superficial stuff does not need defending..

    I have never once excused the crappy gameplay, and I even state that in the article. In layman’s terms, a lot of fans discount a game on face value because it’s “Sonic with a sword”. Now, had the gameplay actually been good, it would have been a good Sonic game. My point is that there’s no reason in arguing about how ‘Sonic should be’ in terms of premise, story and design. The modern games do an OK job in that respect – but yes, if you’re talking about gameplay, they all “leave a lot to be desired” and the series needs work to get back on its feet in that respect.

    You excuse crappy gameplay all throughout this article in an effort to defend some paltry superficial concepts. They wouldn’t even need defending it if the gameplay was better in the first damn place.
    You’re not even just talking about concepts, you’re talking about old vs new fans and as if the old fans only concern is for superficial stuff like “Sonic with a sword”. Sonic should also retain some significant identity and faithfullness but I agree that gameplay takes precedence over stuff like story.

    But again, we’re not talking about the gameplay. And even if YOU want to, I’ve fully covered myself in agreeing the poor quality of gameplay

    You’re just contributing to the problem by derailing concern to stuff that really doesn’t need it.

    – in so much that I have called them out on it. Gameplay is the most important aspect of a Sonic game (or in fact, any game), but it’s not the most important aspect of this article. You don’t like it? Don’t read it – there are other Blog posts and Articles on The Sonic Stadium that happily tear the latest games to shreds, and you can jolly yourself to those all day long if you want.

    Which orginally is why I thought you guys were joking.

    I’m sorry you feel like you used your time effectively in typing those last 1000 words, but it was pure dribble based on the leaking of brain matter that led you to misinterpret this article in the first place. Read it properly, understand it, go back to Key Stage 3 English class, come back, read it again, and then you’ll understand a little bit.

    I suppose you’re actually just chastising yourself over your own article. Because thats a more suitable response in regards to yourself.

    Anything you have left to say in argument is a nonsense,
    as you’re only going to reply to disturb the members of this website with your misunderstanding. I suggest you respond with a little less aggression if you’re going to debate this further – the way you have acted is laughable given you are the one with crossed wires here.

    Is there a reason why you are on the cross? I’m not disturbing anyone. I commented on the article you guys presented for public view and you don’t like my reception. I didn’t come at you. You came at me along with a few of the other chronies on this site. Wasn’t even talking to any of them originally.

    Now, I think the page you’re really looking for is here.

    No, I already knew of it , which is why I thought this article was a joke.

  48. @john588:

    Dude, chill. You’re arguing for the sake of arguing. No one wants too hear it. This is the very thing we’re trying to move away from.

    You are just chiming in because you don’t like what I say. You chill. I wasn’t even originally talking to anybody. You chronies are deciding to argue with me.

    Shades Says:

    March 27th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
    John588, I must say what you just said is extremely…wow. I honestly have never seen a person go that far. If you were on any other site you’d….wow.

    Wow, nothing to say.

  49. “You said the gameplay wasn’t very good. Thus you mentioned the gameplay.”
    So you agree with me. What exactly is your point here?

    “Superficial stuff does not need defending..”
    I wasn’t defending it. I was analysing it. If I’m saying the gameplay in a game leaves a lot to be desired, but then find strong messages in a game’s story, what exactly am I defending, negating or otherwise ‘glossing over’? You’re running out of excuses.

    “I commented on the article you guys presented for public view and you don’t like my reception. I didn’t come at you.”
    When you’re still very much deluded on the actual point of this article, and are vehemently calling me out on your misconceptions, I’d say you were pretty much ‘coming at me’. You can disagree with the points made in this article all you like – I quite enjoyed debating that with you here. What I don’t appreciate is you making snide remarks about me and this website because of it, particularly when you don’t seem to understand what this article is all about.

  50. Hang on a second. *points to name* Okay, rollin’.

    “I thought this article was a joke.”

    Then why do you keep posting? If it’s a joke, just keep ignoring it. “Don’t like, don’t read.”

    Look, for the sake of the article, they’re not concentrating on the gameplay. Alright? They’re analysing the -story-. The underlying theme of the story is that we should stop having these silly arguments like this. He mentions at the end that the gameplay does leave a lot to be desired and they’re definitely not going to skirt over the issue – he’s not saying that the plot redeems the game at all, which seems to be part of your comments that you’re trying to reinforce and not doing very well – but they’re not concentrating on it for now, alright?

    We all -know- that the games are crap. We all -know- that we’re the butthole of the gaming community. We all -know- that we’ve got to do something about it. But for this single second, we’re trying to -forget- that, and looking at something that we’re happy about. Something that is so relevant, Sonic Team seem to have inserted it on purpose to get us to work together and get Sonic back to the top. Just let us have our moment, for this one second.

    There is a reason this is on the ‘Community Blog’, John. And telling somebody that they’re -ruining the games- is less than helping. All that does is cause further problems that we are currently trying to avoid.

    “I wasn’t even originally talking to anybody. You chronies are deciding to argue with me.”

    You seem to have been directly criticising the article by completely missing the point. Most of us naturally decided that we had to get involved and try to get you to see that you’re going off on the wrong tangent. Unfortunately, you then started criticising our own comments, instead of trying to see things from another person’s view. That can be taken as the entire reason for an argument – the refusal to see through another’s eyes.

    And the choice of the word ‘crony’ is a bit interesting, ne? Not the most positive term you could throw out. You make us all sound like a bunch of motown thugs.

    (Also, he didn’t say that the sword was the -only- reason that the old fans discounted a game. For a start-off, he said that -a lot- of fans discounted it, which means a lot more than ‘old fans’ and I’m included in that group. And to be honest, I thought that the fans of the older games would actually be more likely to discount it by seeing another Sonic game being released so close in time to the other ones, but that’s just horrible generalisation.)

    “You’re just contributing to the problem by derailing concern to stuff that really doesn’t need it.”

    Okay, a moral delivered by Sonic Team teaching to ‘love thy enemy’? Right now, with the way we’re all firing off at each other, this is exactly what we shouldn’t be ignoring at the moment. The idea is first to forget our differences – and -then- complain about the games as a group. Weird comprimise, isn’t it?

    Oh, and Brad: “If Shadow was supposed to tell people to forget the past, they failed pretty hard on that account.”

    HELL, YES. They probably shouldn’t have made him so God-damn fluffy, though. *pokes fluffiness* (My theory is that he actually means more of, “You can remember the past, but don’t let it cloud your vision from now on. Spend each and every day in the now, looking to the future, and don’t shove failure in somebody’s face, because remember that you’ve failed too.” Still didn’t work since shoving failure in faces is what everybody else keeps doing to us but, hey, more relevant and it doesn’t sound quite so arsey.)

  51. Just ignore him guys. He’s just trolling. If he wants to argue this somemore, he can start a topic at a message board AWAY from this site, because we don’t want to hear it any longer. 😉

  52. “You are just chiming in because you don’t like what I say.”
    And how do you what I’m thinking? I assure you this is not the case. You’re just being a sourpuss that no one wants to deal with.

    “You chill.”
    I’m pretty relaxed, thank you very much.

    “I wasn’t even originally talking to anybody. You chronies are deciding to argue with me.”
    And yet you’re continuing on with it.

    “Just ignore him guys. He’s just trolling. If he wants to argue this somemore, he can start a topic at a message board AWAY from this site, because we don’t want to hear it any longer. ;)”
    Will do. ^_^ And if he’s trolling, he’s doing a cruddy job of it anyway.

  53. But dont forget dudes trolls arent born you become one when you think the hole world is against me and i think this thinks john too.
    so john ignore this article and move on and we all will forget this because you ccan only argue about the sense of this article and you dont and thats trolling so jusst stop it, please (=

  54. See, this is what I mean, we’re not murdering each other over the basics and simply agreeing that SEGA are making changes due to the latest generation coming in. Well done Dreadknux, well done indeed.

  55. That was one of the best articles I’ve seen on the site for a while that drew positive aspirations from the series and the lore it creates with each passing game. Even though it might be a coincidence that SonicTeam had it in their head to do a message to the fans over the entire game, it seems like the entire game was created as this one story message to the fans. From the very beginnings of the game to the last chords of “Live Life”, I think it is a pretty just statement to say the message SonicTeam is saying is: “We see you’re point, and we are trying, but we don’t want to be copies of what is deemed perfect and do things our way”. Much in the same way Sonic himself was doing in the game. He doesn’t want perfection or to be stuck in a perfect little world which has been ordained by someone else. He just wants to take each unknowing step as it comes and live life knowing he took the risk.

    Great article. Keep the good shit coming.

  56. *applauds* When I first saw Black Knight’s cutscenes, I thought the moral was that everything has its end and that we have to live to the fullest.

    Now thanks to your well-written article, I think now that the moral has a double-meaning. That it targets not only the young audience, but the classic and modern fanbases, too.

    Yes, we have to live life, but we also have to realize that the new Sonic Team cannot recreate the classics. But unlike some people, the new Sonic team doesn’t NEED to recreate the classics. They can create the Sonic-y feel while simultaneously keeping the series fresh to the audience. Sonic Team needs to evolve and continue to maintain interest to the audience. If anything, it’s possible that Next Gen showed us that keeping Sonic confined to the classics was a bad idea, and that the Sonic series needed a serious change in direction. Even if some like yourself, Svend, may not like Unleashed as much as most, their recent efforts show us that they’re trying hard to create an interesting Sonic game. With so much pressure the media puts on Sonic Team and Sega, I’m surprised why they haven’t cracked yet.

    Maybe once more and more fans read this, especially the classic purists, they’ll soon realize that the fandom really needs to take that kick in the pants. Your article is very well-written, and I hope you don’t mind that I occasionally plug this to other people (while giving you credit, of course :P).

  57. geez, the rant in these comments 0_0
    i personally thought svend’s article was top notch,
    and as for john588..
    it’s not like the article was a review of the game,
    if u want TSS’ opinion on gameplay
    you can read the review like most of the community have.

  58. I think there may have been a little too much analysis in here…

    But I can sure as hell say I loved reading it. I am pretty sure I understand what you are getting at here, trying to relate an element from something that Sonic fans are familiar with in order to hopefully get it to click in peoples’ brains that we are all Sonic fans here, so regardless of our views we should all just be able to get along. I really do agree, and this article definitely brought a smile to my face seeing as for once this topic has been tackled with a lot of positivity, rather than sarcastically and negatively. Not saying you guys have done that, but generally a lot of the time when the whole ‘classic fan’ and ‘modern fan’ thing comes up, people react to it very negatively because of the way it is written.

    This was great though, I really loved reading through it. Nice article =)

  59. “You said the gameplay wasn’t very good. Thus you mentioned the gameplay.”

    So you agree with me. What exactly is your point here?

    That your glossing over the gameplay is whats under question. That should have been obvious. I presented the same scenario in regards to the site and game you mentioned as a parallel, l just used a reverse message since the gameplay in those games is actually decent.

    I wasn’t defending it.
    I was analysing it. If I’m saying the gameplay in a game leaves a lot to be desired, but then find strong messages in a game’s story, what exactly am I defending, negating or otherwise ‘glossing over’? You’re running out of excuses.

    “My point is that there’s no reason in arguing about how ‘Sonic should be’ in terms of premise, story and design. The modern games do an OK job in that respect”

    lol, wut?

    When you’re still very much deluded on the actual point of this article, and are vehemently calling me out on your misconceptions, I’d say you were pretty much ‘coming at me’.

    When you don’t know what you actually type then you can expect someone to point it out for you and make you realise what you did. Do you even question the grasp of understanding from thiose claiming they liked it? No because you apprently only care about ass kissing reception I guess.

    You should recognise that in you efforts, you completely cast off gameplay as irrelevant to appreciating Sonic games, you generalize that old fans only have a problem with the superficial concepts and unbeknownst to you, you even defended these superficial concepts.

    You can disagree with the points made in this article all you like

    As long as I don’t say anything aye?

    – I quite enjoyed debating that with you here.

    Happy to be of service.

    What I don’t appreciate is you making snide remarks about me and this website because of it, particularly when you don’t seem to understand what this article is all about.

    Most of the stuff I even stated about you was either questions or stuff you admitted to but then shifted the point.

  60. Then why do you keep posting? If it’s a joke, just keep ignoring it. “Don’t like, don’t read.”

    Because it became apparent that it wasn’t. Especially when the guy who supposedly wrote it came in defense of it and called me “stupid”. Some real tact there.

    Look, for the sake of the article, they’re not concentrating on the gameplay. Alright?

    Except thats rather flawed given what the apparent message the blog writer is saying is to be derived from it. The article surmisses that the problems simply lie with people’s acceptance of superficial crap and that this is basically the main problem that Classic Sonic fans seem to have issues with.

    There is a reason this is on the ‘Community Blog’, John. And telling somebody that they’re -ruining the games- is less than helping. All that does is cause further problems that we are currently trying to avoid.

    Telling somebody that they are ruining the games is just the blunt truth when they blatantly are. That poster said that gameplay isn’t very important. I’d rather those sort of fans be purged instead of contributing to the ruination of gameplay.

    You seem to have been directly criticising the article by completely missing the point. Most of us naturally decided that we had to get involved and try to get you to see that you’re going off on the wrong tangent. Unfortunately, you then started criticising our own comments, instead of trying to see things from another person’s view. That can be taken as the entire reason for an argument – the refusal to see through another’s eyes.

    You guys come at and insult me and you accused me of attacking you? No one twisted your arm to come at me.

    And the choice of the word ‘crony’ is a bit interesting, ne? Not the most positive term you could throw out. You make us all sound like a bunch of motown thugs.

    Why be positive when you guys try to insult me?

    (Also, he didn’t say that the sword was the -only- reason that the old fans discounted a game. For a start-off, he said that -a lot- of fans discounted it, which means a lot more than ‘old fans’ and I’m included in that group. And to be honest, I thought that the fans of the older games would actually be more likely to discount it by seeing another Sonic game being released so close in time to the other ones, but that’s just horrible generalisation.)

    This whole artical, apparently unbeknownst to the blog writer, was in defense of superficial concepts and classic vs new fans. Really, what else can be derived from a casual read over the article without even bothering to post in or even read the comment from the writer? If anything, this article can just fuel more argment. I especially doubt that the newbs who liked it even got the message the blog writer claims is supposed to be the point of it. They will just be defending rubbish games because of inconsequential concepts. And many clasic fans likely won’t see it as positive since any classic fan with a brain can see where the real issues lie. The gameplay.

    Okay, a moral delivered by Sonic Team teaching to ‘love thy enemy’? Right now, with the way we’re all firing off at each other, this is exactly what we shouldn’t be ignoring at the moment. The idea is first to forget our differences – and -then- complain about the games as a group. Weird comprimise, isn’t it?

    This isn’t improving the games and Sonic fan politics are just so grossly esoteric that I’d rather Sonic Team just ignore themshould in favor of a focus on honing the actual gameplay. Especially if Sonic Team is really trying to send the message the blog writer suggest.

    People can learn to love thy enemy in the Bible or something.

    March 28th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
    Just ignore him guys. He’s just trolling. If he wants to argue this somemore, he can start a topic at a message board AWAY from this site, because we don’t want to hear it any longer.

    You can’t just throw around troll accusations when you don’t like what a person is saying. Thats just petty really.

    IndigoRush101 Says:

    March 28th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
    And how do you what I’m thinking? I assure you this is not the case. You’re just being a sourpuss that no one wants to deal with.

    No one pulled your arm to come at me and I wasn’t originally talking to you to begin with.

    I’m pretty relaxed, thank you very much.

    So why do you have a problem with me?

    And yet you’re continuing on with it.

    You are the one who engaged me. I guess you don’t fully grasp reason or the congeniality you promote.

  61. Wow, I’m off the computer for a weekend and I completely miss an article. I wish I had missed the argument. Oh, and John? What happened to No Drama ’09? I mean seriously dude. If you don’t like an article, go take out your frustrations on a nice video game full of explosions and such, not on the community and those who run the website. If I need to blow something up, I usually play something Ratchet and Clank, or Jak and Daxter, but that’s just me. Or, if I need a game to relax to, I play some Harvest Moon. Just please stop with the arguing, for my sanity and the sanity of the rest of the community. Just because you started something doesn’t mean you have to finish it.

  62. Sonic is not Mario. Nor is he Link, nor any other Nintendo character. Sega needs to realize this and just stop blatantly ripping off Zelda games. When they finally stop adding unneeded gameplay elements and go back to making Sonic games the right way (like the Adventure series), then people will stop complaining, and Sega will earn more money too(more people buying the games), a win-win situation. John558 is right because change should only be accepted if it is good change, not like the unnecessary change that was present in recent games. When I first played Sonic Unleashed, I thought it would be the end of the era of crappy Sonic games, once and for all. The gameplay was awesome in the first day level, and it reminded me of the Adventure series. If only there was no werehog, then the gameplay would be pretty much perfect. Maybe for Sonic’s 20th anniversary, Sega will learn from the mistakes of the past few years and make a decent game that doesnt have over 9000 glitches or bad gameplay. Also, Quality > Quantity.

  63. @ZeroPoint: Swords, magic and medieval settings doesn’t equal a Zelda ripoff or Nintendo wannabe at all. By your logic, I suppose “Rapunzel” is ripping off Zelda because it has castles with princesses in them.

    That, and your comment had nothing to do with the article, which is about DK’s interpretation of the moral of Black Knight’s story.

  64. Don’t feed Jo… I mean Troll.

    The world, it has become dark and full of hate in the sense that people have to hurt others. Something I might have wanted once, but that was just anger over a lot of things.

  65. What happened to No Drama ‘09?

    What the hell? Sorry, I don’t keep up with all the lame Sonic fan politics.

    I mean seriously dude. If you don’t like an article, go take out your frustrations on a nice video game full of explosions and such, not on the community and those who run the website. If I need to blow something up, I usually play something Ratchet and Clank, or Jak and Daxter, but that’s just me. Or, if I need a game to relax to, I play some Harvest Moon. Just please stop with the arguing, for my sanity and the sanity of the rest of the community. Just because you started something doesn’t mean you have to finish it.

    I’m pretty sure that comments are here for expressing your opinions on the articles and thats all I’m doing. Don’t tell me to ignore an outlet just because you don’t like what I’m saying. Maybe you should follow your own advice if you feel that way and simply ignopre my comments.
    Until they decide to make things here completely totalitarian then expect people to post input that *gasp* isn’t mere butt kissing. If the author doen’t like cirticism then they might as well not post public blogs or articles. I’m not taking anything out on the damn comunnity here. Some goons decided to attack me and argue on their own accord.

  66. Don’t feed Jo… I mean Troll.

    It seems the only trolls here are the ones throwing around troll accusations are the trolls. Troll isn’t just something to use whenever people say something you don’t like.

    The world, it has become dark and full of hate in the sense that people have to hurt others. Something I might have wanted once, but that was just anger over a lot of things.

    Try actually reading all of my comments before speaking please.

  67. This is Bullshit. I Do NOT Agree with this at all and I am not apart of this fanbase but I will something straight to your head. Sonic does NOT Need a Gimmick. This speech is bullshit. Unleashed was a title of respect. I have checkout black Knight and have my complaints. Sonic is supposed to be fast and not constantly be trying Gimmicks. Ruan Drummond should come back and be Sonic and the next game of Sonic the Hedgehog should not have a gimmick and people who bitch about review SHOULD SHUT THE FUCK UP. Black Knight SUCKS to me and no stupid speech is going to change my opinion. Sonic AND THE BLACK KNIGHT IS ONE MORE GAME IN THE DECLINE OF THE SONIC SERIES. THE SERIES ISNT WHAT IT USED TO BE. IF MARIO CAN DO A GREAT!! JOB THAN WHY CANT SONIC THE HEDGEHOG!!!???

  68. I think Sonic And The Black Knight is one of the best sonic games out there.I’m a huge sonic fan and I always struggle or fight for myself to own the game.My parents don’t have enough money(it’s like I’m not poor or anything but it’s just that my parents can’t afford it.) So basically in the near future I’ll have it.I sometimes wish that sonic was real and he would be my friend,sometimes I feel that way.

  69. *cries*

    That was beautiful… *cries maor*

    Personally I believe that Sonic Team made a step in the right direction with both Unleashed (gameplay) and Black Knight (content/fanservice).

    I believe the next Sonic (Sonic 2011 lol) will be a superior title to Unleashed at the very least, and it was those two games (Unleashed and Black Knight) that proved in a way that Sonic still has a fighting chance whether the “jaded” media or “jaded” fans believe it or not.

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